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Old 02-03-2017, 07:50 PM   #11
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Default Re: H&K P2000SK

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
Not that I'm aware of, but shouldn't be too difficult to work out. Compared to the USP Compact, the P2000 has roughly the same size barrel (93 mm instead of 91 mm) and the same overall length (173 mm), for the same damage, range, and Bulk for each. Loaded weight is 1.91 lb for the P2000, and it holds shots 10+1. The P2000SK has a shorter barrel at 83 mm, which might be enough to justify a slight reduction to damage (maybe 2d pi+ instead of 2d+1 pi+, but that may be overstating the difference).
The Glock 26, at 87 mm barrel, has Dmg 2d+1 pi and the Kahr K40, at 89 mm, has Dmg 2d+1 pi+. Unless the P2000SK drops velocity down to .38 Spl levels, Damage is going to remain Dmg 2d+1 pi+.

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
Its 163 mm overall length might be enough to justify dropping it to Bulk -1 (the longest Bulk -1 pistol in HT, the Walther PPK, is 155 mm).
The Glock 26, Glock 27 and the P99c are 160-170 mm and all get Bulk -1.

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
Loaded, it weighs 1.83 lb, and holds shots 9+1. The P2000 series is apparently a bit more readily-customized than the USP (in terms of grips, accessories, etc), so the character is more likely to have a Weapon Bond, but that isn't necessarily the case. It was designed to be a bit more comfortable than the USP series, but even if that was accomplished it's beneath GURPS resolution (but may be a decent reason why the character would have chosen one of those). They can also apparently use the same magazines as the USP Compact, letting them have the same number of shots, but if the P2000SK is Bulk -1, using a USP magazine brings it to Bulk -2.
Thanks. The PC chose the gun because it was the smallest one offered. He's a desk weenie and the character has no plans to ever fire his weapon, except for mandatory qualification.
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Old 02-04-2017, 07:41 AM   #12
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Default Re: [Modern Firepower] Technothriller gear for secret DHS team in 2017

In regards to arming agriculture inspectors, they might stumble across a terrorist chemical weapons test site, such as Banjawarn Station, in remote Western Australia, which was used by Aum Shinrikyo to develop their sarin production.
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Old 02-04-2017, 11:35 AM   #13
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Default Re: [Modern Firepower] Technothriller gear for secret DHS team in 2017

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In regards to arming agriculture inspectors, they might stumble across a terrorist chemical weapons test site, such as Banjawarn Station, in remote Western Australia, which was used by Aum Shinrikyo to develop their sarin production.
If the campaign over develops an international scope of that breadth, we very well might.

For the moment, our characters are in North America. What I know*, but not my character, is that our first 'mission' will be set on Jewel Island, a small (real) island 8 miles away from Portland, Maine and reachable by ferry, within the (fictional**) Manhanock Asylum for the Criminally Insane. We are not armed, carry only generic ID that attests to our temporary status as 'consultants' to the DHS (and expires the day after in the case of my PC) and are accompanied by two Special Agents of the Office of the Inspector General of the DHS and a smooth-talking goverment lawyer whom we met at the DHS headquarters (though we are unclear as to where he is usually employed).

My character is still officially an enlisted man of the US Army convicted at court martial and stripped off all rank, pay and entitlements. As such, he is merely temporarily remanded from the USDB at Forth Leavenworth into the custody of the Department of Homeland Security, allegedly in connection with a sensitive national security investigation that he might be able to provide helpful intelligence in regards.

The other PCs are one of the Special Agents of the OIG*** and a former US Army psychiatrist who used to work in Project Jade Serenity, now temporarily employed by the DHS as a civilian contractor. Our purpose in being there is to speak with an inmate who was a 91X (now 68x) Mental Health Technician at Camp Mackall when the Project was active. She is usually far from helpful when questioned and as it is vital that she divulge information that the Onyx Rain planers believe that she might have about former CW2 Raul Vargas, we were asked to persuade her. Michael Anderson, the psychiatrist, was her boss for a year and they were fairly close and my character, (then SPC) Mackenzie Chase Taylor, was her best friend at the base.

If we succeed and perform well enough for our handlers to trust us, we will be sent to talk to some more people. That time, however, we will probably carry weapons, because those people are former and current members of the 7th SFG(A), Green Berets, and they are AWOL in a small town or village in Mexico, near the US border, in an area formerly controlled by Los Zetas and currently under the control of either the Knights Templars or by the American Green Berets.

*Because the GM does not have much experience of technotriller/action/covert ops games and asked me to provide research and GURPS-statting assistance.
**Well, we are using pictures and maps of Danvers State Hospital / Danvers State Insane Asylum and inspiration from that place. But the location on the island, the status as both a satellite facility for St. Elizabeths Hospital and as a black research facility into psychoactive and nootropic drugs are entirely fictional. As are the highly unethical experiments, animal and human, which took place there during the Cold War. All of these, however, are firmly based on things which did happen in other places, albeit perhaps not quite as spectacular in results, if every bit as morally objectionable.
***Technically, he is CBP special agent on assignment to the DHS Office of Intelligence & Analysis (I&A) who has been temporarily detached to Onyx Rain and is carrying entirely fraudulent ID (though probably with the connivance of the OIG).
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Old 02-04-2017, 09:05 PM   #14
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Default H&K P2000 and P2000 SK

These are two of the pistols that Danny O'Toole (PC), our desk weenie from the CBP, was allowed to choose between, the fairly compact carry pistol H&K P2000 and its subcompact cousin, the P2000 SK.

H&K P2000, .40 S&W
Dmg: 2d+1 pi+
Acc: 2
Range: 150/1,700
Weight: 1.9 lbs.
RoF: 3
Shots: 10+1
ST: 9
Bulk: -2
Rcl: 2
Cost: $700
LC: 3
Notes: No lanyard ring, Very Reliable.

Smaller than a full-size service pistol like the Glock 17 or the Beretta 92-series, this is more comfortable to carry all day for an investigator who mostly works in an office.

H&K P2000 SK, .40 S&W
Dmg: 2d+1 pi+
Acc: 1
Range: 140/1,600
Weight: 1.8 lbs.
RoF: 3
Shots: 9+1
ST: 9
Bulk: -1
Rcl: 2
Cost: $700
LC: 3
Notes: No lanyard ring, Very Reliable.

The subcompact P2000 SK, like the Glock 26/27, is very popular with higher-ranking officers, as it is even less uncomfortable than a weapon in a compact size range. The short sight radius and small size makes it harder to shoot accurately at any range, but this is not a concern for typical users.
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Old 02-06-2017, 05:05 AM   #15
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Default Mk 12 SPR Accuracy

Are there any posters with experience shooting accurised AR15/M16-type rifles?

Should the Mk 12 SPR rate Fine (Accurate)?

On one hand, delivering accurate aimed fire at engagement ranges greater than an unmodified M16-type was a design goal and the weapon has by all accounts been well received in this role.

On the other hand, there are clearly more accurate precision rifles built on the AR15 platform. Of course, those could be said to be Very Fine (Accurate), but still, if we give the Mk 12 SPR Acc 6, it's functionally equal to real sniper rifles in GURPS terms.
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Old 02-06-2017, 12:06 PM   #16
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Default Re: Mk 12 SPR Accuracy

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
Are there any posters with experience shooting accurised AR15/M16-type rifles?

Should the Mk 12 SPR rate Fine (Accurate)?

On one hand, delivering accurate aimed fire at engagement ranges greater than an unmodified M16-type was a design goal and the weapon has by all accounts been well received in this role.

On the other hand, there are clearly more accurate precision rifles built on the AR15 platform. Of course, those could be said to be Very Fine (Accurate), but still, if we give the Mk 12 SPR Acc 6, it's functionally equal to real sniper rifles in GURPS terms.
I have shot couple of accurised AR15 type rifles and found the accuracy to be very much dependent of having the correct ammo, the extra accuracy is definitely not seen with cheap ammo. Further a normal good quality heavy barrel AR15 type rifle is already much more accurate than a normal run of the mill AR15. And the low granularity of the Accuracy system does not make such determinations easy.

I have not shot a Mk 12 SPR, but from what I have read about it, a lot of the extra accuracy comes from the special ammo combined with rifle long barrel. Also it should be noted that the fact that it is more accurate is mostly seen against M4 carbines that have only acc 4.

So my semi-informed guess would make the MK 12 normal (not fine accurate), but acc 5 because of the fairly long barrel, but would make the special ammo to be match ammo. Thus giving the combination accuracy 6 with that ammo, but less if shooting normal ammo.
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Old 02-07-2017, 02:49 AM   #17
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Default Re: Fine (Accurate) military rifles

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Originally Posted by weby View Post
I have shot couple of accurised AR15 type rifles and found the accuracy to be very much dependent of having the correct ammo, the extra accuracy is definitely not seen with cheap ammo. Further a normal good quality heavy barrel AR15 type rifle is already much more accurate than a normal run of the mill AR15. And the low granularity of the Accuracy system does not make such determinations easy.

I have not shot a Mk 12 SPR, but from what I have read about it, a lot of the extra accuracy comes from the special ammo combined with rifle long barrel. Also it should be noted that the fact that it is more accurate is mostly seen against M4 carbines that have only acc 4.

So my semi-informed guess would make the MK 12 normal (not fine accurate), but acc 5 because of the fairly long barrel, but would make the special ammo to be match ammo. Thus giving the combination accuracy 6 with that ammo, but less if shooting normal ammo.
That sounds fair enough.

What about the Mk 20 SSR, a FN SCAR-H with a longer receiver, different 20" barrel than the SCAR-H (Long), new trigger and a precision stock? From the description, it sounds like it warrants Fine (Accurate), but the same concern applies, i.e. that there are actual sniper rifles that are even more accurate that still receive only Acc 6 in GURPS.

In this case, however, I'm inclined to err on the side of Acc 6, as the Mk 20 SSR appears closer to the SR-25 than anything else.
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Old 02-07-2017, 03:22 AM   #18
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Default Re: [Modern Firepower] Technothriller gear for secret DHS team in 2017

From what you're saying they seem to be hunting down escaped critters/animals from some bio-tech lab, in that case I'd have them pretend to be Parks Service, people aren't going to be questioning them to much about hunting down some animal, and if they say their hunting down a bear showing signs of rabies, well who would question them packing?

As for which gun, it likely doesn't matter.
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Old 02-07-2017, 04:31 AM   #19
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Default Re: [Modern Firepower] Technothriller gear for secret DHS team in 2017

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From what you're saying they seem to be hunting down escaped critters/animals from some bio-tech lab, in that case I'd have them pretend to be Parks Service, people aren't going to be questioning them to much about hunting down some animal, and if they say their hunting down a bear showing signs of rabies, well who would question them packing?
The critters in question are human.

There is an unknown (to the PCs, at least) number of test subjects from precursor programs, mostly inmates of a mental institution, the Manhanock Asylum for the Criminally Insane, and some military personnel convinced at court martial who agreed to take part in drug trials in exchange for reduced sentences or transfer to a more comfortable facility. Most of these people are probably already accounted for and, in many cases, never left the mental institution where the tests were carried out in the 1980s to 1990s.

Then there are some 40 people from Project Jade Serenity, a black DOD research project supposedly investigating the effects of nootropic drugs on healthy, motivated young soldiers in a training environment.*

The government (and/or secret conspiracy within the government) is not ruling out that the condition can spread across species, as well as being inheritable. Our characters are not privy to secrets behind the scenes, but there is reason to believe that the descendants of escaped animal test subjects, found on an island where initial testing was conducted, might exhibit strange traits.

One PC is a former test subject of Project Jade Serenity. He has been convinced to approach his fellow subjects and try to secure their peaceful cooperation with Operation Onyx Rain, which appears to be a joint task force under the Department of Homeland Security, tasked with responding to the emerging crisis of multiple former test subjects manifesting weird behaviour, psychological issues and physiological changes.

Another PC is a psychiatrist who worked in Project Jade Serenity, as well as some of the preceding programs. He dosed himself with several of the experimental substances developed for the DOD and while the initial effects were barely statistically significant, the passage of time appears to cause more dramatic alterations in the subjects. Dr. Michael Anderson has accepted a temporary position as consultant with the Department of Homeland Security, although it is clear to him that his handlers in Onyx Rain consider him more of a security risk to be managed than an asset that they expect to provide any valuable assistance.

The third PC is not a test subject nor staffer of Project Jade Serenity, but is instead part of the 'MIBs' with Onyx Rain who are meant to keep an eye on us test subjects and ensure that we are not working against the interest of the mission. He is a CBP agent with an intelligence background, assigned to the DHS Office of Intelligence & Analysis. Unknown** to his superiors, Special Agent Daniel O'Toole deliberately chased after wild rumours within federal law enforcement to get assigned to Onyx Rain, as he believes that his never-seen father was a test subject of Project Jade Serenity and that this accounts for his powerful psychokinetic gifts (carefully kept a secret from the government).

*But actually involving many more drugs than the specific nootropic substances specified in the grant application. It is not clear (at least to the PCs) whether all test subjects in fact received the same drugs, but my character, at least, was subjected to ergogenic aids, neurostimulants, concentration-enhancing substances, psychadelic drugs and nootropic compounds that improved cognition, memory and sensory processing.
**And worth a -30 point Secret.


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As for which gun, it likely doesn't matter.
The point of a technothriller style is that it matters.
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Old 02-07-2017, 02:06 PM   #20
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Default Communication gear

The Motorola XTS 5000 comes to around $5,000 in the Model III that the DHS bought. Does this price get you anything in GURPS terms other than a $250 Small Radio (TL8) (HT p. 38) with built-in $500 Secure Encryption (HT p. 211)?

I think GPS (TL8) (HT p. 39) is an optional piece of kit available as an add-on from Motorola. I'm not sure if the Motorola XTS 5000 Model III rates ECCM (TL7) (HT p. 39) in GURPS terms, but I think it does, which at least moves the GURPS price point up to $1,000, only 20% of the real-world cost per unit.

Should the Motorola XTS 5000 Model III perhaps have greater range than the 5 miles assumed for the fairly modestly priced, and probably 80s vintage, TL8 Small Radio in GURPS High-Tech?

Might it perhaps instead or in addition be considered Good-quality (p. B345) communication gear, giving a +1 to skil checks involving its use?

What about the Iridium 9505A? Standard Satellite Phone (TL8) or perhaps an Expensive model, accounting for the slightly lower Weight?

Is the Iridium 9555 then a clear evolutionary advance, having a lower Cost, but also lower Weight and more features?
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