Relievers Created through "Midwife" attunement

[PenitentDemon]

Curious.

a few questions.

First can anyone see valid reasons to Create a Reliever with this Attunement, with more then 3 forces.

As you can just Earn CP in play to buy more forces.

And you can protect them from Celestial combat by seeing to it they get a vessel.

(especialy if their raised/Trained in heaven)

Beyond that.

It said somewhere in the GMG That it requires flesh to flesh contact to give or revoke an attunement.

Is that just for lesser wordbound?

E.g. Since Eli himself isnt invoked in this attunment, do we need to summon him and beg his favor to give such a reliever an attunement (better have a good reason, lol).

or for that matter with soldiers of heaven or hell, I think its a valid question, does a prince or archangel need to be summoned to give them an attunement, or can it be "channeled" during a ritual.

Just wanted to ask on these things.

[Dalillama]

Off the top of my head:

Originally Posted by PenitentDemon

First can anyone see valid reasons to Create a Reliever with this Attunement, with more then 3 forces.

As you can just Earn CP in play to buy more forces.

And you can protect them from Celestial combat by seeing to it they get a vessel.

(especialy if their raised/Trained in heaven)

Beyond that.

Because there are more than three parents, or because you want them to fledge sooner.

It said somewhere in the GMG That it requires flesh to flesh contact to give or revoke an attunement.

Is that just for lesser wordbound?

E.g. Since Eli himself isnt invoked in this attunment, do we need to summon him and beg his favor to give such a reliever an attunement (better have a good reason, lol).

If you want the releiver to have an Attunement, then yes, you would need to summon Eli, per the RAW. However, using the Midwife Attunement for an Angel who already has it does not require Eli's presence to create a Releiver.

or for that matter with soldiers of heaven or hell, I think its a valid question, does a prince or archangel need to be summoned to give them an attunement, or can it be "channeled" during a ritual.

This one is less clear. CPG P 55 states that any Soldier can buy Laurences Attunements with earned points or at creation, and non-Laurentine Soldiers probably don't have any way to reliably get Laurence there, so it seems likely that they can be granted to Soldiers remotely by some ritual. I'd suggest that at minimum an angel with the Attunement would have to be present and participating in any such ritual, but that's a personal call if I were the GM, it's not in the rules.

[PenitentDemon]

oh on Celestial Children another oddball question?

If an Elohim is to try wheedling his superiors to keep an angelic or Reliever child in some kind of simple duty in heaven, as opposed to potentialy dangerous work on Earth, is that dissonant behaviour or is simply responsible?

[Archangel Beth]

Originally Posted by PenitentDemon

If an Elohim is to try wheedling his superiors to keep an angelic or Reliever child in some kind of simple duty in heaven, as opposed to potentialy dangerous work on Earth, is that dissonant behaviour or is simply responsible?

Well, the term wheedle is very loaded. Barring IN-Backwards (where an ice-hearted Elohite wouldn't give a fig either way), an Elohite would assess the matter, and give a logical report to the superior (or Superior) in question, as to why a given reliever should not (or should!) be given duty on Earth.

It is also entirely possible that the Elohite might say, "I am emotionally attached to this reliever and concerned that my objectivity might be endangered should the reliever be threatened or harmed; as I am the more competent operative on Earth at this time, I believe that the optimal course would be to ensure that the reliever is kept in Heaven till it has enough Forces and training to reduce my emotional concern over its safety."

Now, whether this would work depends on various things, not the least of which is the Brightness setting the GM has chosen... And whether the reliever is a MacGuffin.

[Dalillama]

I don't suppose you'd care to comment on how Soldiers get Attunements, would you? I hate to ask, but I've been through every resource I have, and no details were mentioned that I could find, not even in the FAQ.

[Archangel Beth]

Originally Posted by DAlillama

I don't suppose you'd care to comment on how Soldiers get Attunements, would you?

In general, an Attunement is an Attunement, and Attunements are given by Superiors. Page 36 in the core rules, if I read the PDF (that I just quit out of) page number right.

The GM is always free to add SFX to this, of course -- perhaps a Soldier of the Sword is summoned to the Tether and handed a fine blade (or a symbolic representation of one), that is the conduit for the granting. Princes are said to keep spare Forces around to be summoned by rituals to make Hellsworn (so the Prince doesn't have to be directly involved for every two-bit Hellsworn their people make), so it's not out of the question that Superiors in general might have a small stash of "primed" relics whose only purpose is to grant a Servitor Attunement, and be willing to hand them to a trusted Servitor (maybe a Seneschal) as rewards.

However, since misusing an Attunement tends to harm the Superior who gave it, that'd be one trusted Servitor handing out the goodies, and there'd be defenses against those getting stolen. (Because you KNOW a Servitor of Theft/the Wind would ADORE to get its grubby little manipulators on one!)

Depending on whether you want Maltese Falcon-like Attunement MacGuffins running around your game, you may want to stick to "the Superior takes a few moments of its busy day and beeps the Soldier on the nose" personal bestowings.

[PenitentDemon]

Uh what he and I were both asking about wasnt attunements being stored in relics

but if they can be CHANNELED Via a remote ritual. As I dont see Saminga actually ATTENDING the creation of eveyr mummy, but it says he offers his attunements to any undead even those created by other princes.

[William]

Well, it may simply be his demons that make the offer, and if the undead accepts then there's the appropriate ceremony.

[Whitelaughter]

First can anyone see valid reasons to Create a Reliever with this Attunement, with more then 3 forces.


So that they'd have more than 4 Soul Hits! A single punch could kill a 3 Force Reliever. Getting them a Vessel requires a Superior, and Eli's on holiday. Also, Vessels are capped by the Forces of the recipient.
Additionally, the more angels involved, the more 'parents' keeping an eye on the Reliever, so it has a better social network.

The fun way to use Midwife is with a Cherub and a Celestial Song of Lending
1) 'persuade' a Sorcerer to give up his bound demonlings to the cause,
2) create a 6 Force Reliever from the Cherub and 5 demonlings,
3) Lend Midwife to the 6 Force reliever, who
4) create a new 6 Force reliever with the aid of 5 demonlings,
5) repeat steps 3 and 4 indefinitely.


As you can just Earn CP in play to buy more forces.
In Heaven? Angels grow slowly, unless they get a boost from a WordBound. And the Reliever needs to learn skills and Songs. Also, building up a Force costs 12 cp rather than the normal 10 because you have to get it by buying 4 attribute points.

> E.g. Since Eli himself isnt invoked in this attunment, do we need to summon him and beg his favor to give such a reliever an attunement (better have a good reason, lol).
Normally, yes, so better to involve a minor WordBound in the creation process initially. They can invest a Word Force, which is easier to replace, and then the reliever should find it easier to earn Rites (and maybe an Attunement) from 'daddy'.

Elohim's judgement is meant to be influenced by their Superior's Word, that being an objectively good thing to protect. So a Power of Children should definitely be protecting the child! Defending a reliever seems objectively good, but if there are any doubts, a shrewd Elohite will get the opinion of Judgement on the matter.

[Archangel Beth]

Originally Posted by PenitentDemon

[...] attunements being [...] CHANNELED Via a remote ritual.

That counts as a form of SFX. I would assume that, like the Distinction requirement demons have before they can do Oathtaking (p. 157 core rules PDF), there would be a similar one for bestowing attunements.

However, the GM does still need to take into account that when a Word-bound gives an attunement, it means that person potentially has more power to affect the Word than J Random Mundane. Using the attunement in ways contrary to the overall goals/theme of the Word can damage it. Smart Superiors may still want to show up and assess for themselves whether or not J Random Soldier is going to get that power.

Saminga, I think it's been established, is cunning, not smart...