Hunter, The vigil : Need tips to roleplay a Catholic Priest

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by ak_aramis

No. Only a deacon can be ordained a priest.

A bishop can ordain a deacon.

He might not do it in one step, but a bishop has sufficient faculties to make a man a priest.

[Celjabba]

I think that the 3 requirements to make a catholic priest are :
--Intent : The Bishop must intent to ordain him, the future Priest must freely want it (and understand what a priest is).
--Matter : The Bishop must be validly ordained as a Bishop inside the Apostolic Succession, the future Priest must be an human baptized male.
--Form : The proper ritual, as defined by the Catholic Church, must be used.

If those 3 requirement are met, the ordination is sacramentally valid.

So, I think a Bishop could in theory select a random male human, even if he is a murderer, underage, clinically insane, illiterate, insufficiently educated, self-mutilated, married, without any of the lesser orders and in a state of Mortal Sin (any one of those would normally be an impediment and stop the process); and in one (long) ceremony, baptize him sub conditione (If you are not already baptized, I baptize you), Confirm him sub conditione, and then ordain him as a priest (optionally first into the minor orders, and then as a deacon and then as a priest) and, assuming he use the proper forms and both are willing, the man will be a sacramentally valid Priest.

The ordination would be illicit (which mean among other thing that the Bishop will be in a lot of trouble, starting with instant excommunication) and irregular (which mean among other thing that the Priest sacrament, except for mass, won't be valid unless in an emergency).
The priest could not call himself a Priest, perform any apostolic duties nor enjoy any benefits, and while the fault is entirely on the Bishop side, the Church is unlikely to be accommodating toward him... But it may be enough for the character if he just need the Power Investiture.

That said, across history, licit dispensations have been obtained for insufficient formation, no respect of the mandatory delays between orders, minimum age , and any other irregularities. It may have to come straight from the Pope, but about any impediment can and have been ignored in some cases.

See for example Father Cesare Bisognin. Ordained at 19 (minimum is 25), in less than a week from minor order to Priesthood. (A Terminaly ill seminary student).

In a game world inspired by the "World of Darkness", I can definitively see some flexibility in the requirements.

[Algarik]

Originally Posted by Celjabba

In a game world inspired by the "World of Darkness", I can definitively see some flexibility in the requirements.

Yeah i was going for that, because well... my character is gonna be invoking miracle granted by God, or atleast other hunters acknowledges God as the power source.

My character background is also somewhat vague and he already had some academics skills, which could mean he had a bit of prerequisite classes done. Beside, his trainer is a Bishop, so i guess that could help.

And also, thanks again everyone that is very helpful!

[ak_aramis]

Originally Posted by Agemegos

A bishop can ordain a deacon.

He might not do it in one step, but a bishop has sufficient faculties to make a man a priest.

Only a bishop (including a patriarch) can ordain ANYONE.

(Ok, minor exception in the Syriac Rite Churches: A Chorbishop, who is not actually a bishop, but is higher than an Archpriest, can ordain minor orders: Porter, Lector, Cantor, Acolyte. I don't know if they can ordain subdeacons.

[dcarson]

As a bit of background he might be taking correspondence classes at either a college or a seminary. So as to meet the requirements he should have had. Intent can matter.

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by ak_aramis

Only a bishop (including a patriarch) can ordain ANYONE.

Indeed. But so what?

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by Celjabba

I think that the 3 requirements to make a catholic priest are :
--Intent : The Bishop must intent to ordain him, the future Priest must freely want it (and understand what a priest is).
--Matter : The Bishop must be validly ordained as a Bishop inside the Apostolic Succession, the future Priest must be an human baptized male.
--Form : The proper ritual, as defined by the Catholic Church, must be used.

There is an article in the Catholic Encyclopaedia on line about the Sacrament of Holy Orders. This describes the rules that were in force at from the Council of Trent (ended in 1563) and the Second Council of the Vatican (1962–1965), both regarding an effective and a licit consecration. It discusses the minister of the sacrament (a bishop), the subject (a Catholic man), the form and matter, the ceremonies, the effect, the time and place. It also discusses how the rules developed historically, which of them are divine and which human, who can waive and dispense them….

It's a bit long and technical — certainly far more detailed than is called for for a roleplaying campaign unless it is a sort of Catholic Barchester Chronicles — and it quite possibly says some things that the OP and the GM of the campaign in question will decide isn't true in their World of Darkness.

I respectfully suggest that anyone who is interested in the real-world details and not in helping the OP might find the article interesting and informative.

[ak_aramis]

Originally Posted by Agemegos

Indeed. But so what?

Every priest, even a vagante, is beheld to some bishop for his ordination. Without a bishop, no deacons nor priests. And bishops tend to be unwilling to ordain deacons and priest who are neither missionary nor local diocesan priests.

(Most vagante priests are expelled by their bishop for disobedience or heresy. Most vagante bishops find someplace underserved and set up an independent church, and promptly ordain some deacons, then train them as priests, and ordain them as such, then make the most closely trusted one an auxiliary bishop...)