12-22-2013, 05:55 PM | #1 |
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Salodurum, Confoederatio Helvetica
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Invention Modifiers
Hi guys
I am having trouble understanding the difference between these modifiers on B473. Under Concept it says:
and
How do these two modifiers differ exactly? To me it sounds like it is the same. Could you please explain how these modifiers differ and when you would use what. Thanks Onkl |
12-22-2013, 06:03 PM | #2 | |
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
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Re: Invention Modifiers
Quote:
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12-22-2013, 06:05 PM | #3 |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Invention Modifiers
I'm not sure about that. If you are trying to invent a new kind of car, you can do it with or without an existing car to dissemble and reassemble, right?
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12-22-2013, 06:08 PM | #4 |
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
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Re: Invention Modifiers
Which would probably be under the +1 to +5 bonus. The way I see the +5 bonus working is you are copying the item exactly - it's the reverse engineering bonus. That's how I view it anyways.
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12-22-2013, 06:21 PM | #5 |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Invention Modifiers
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12-22-2013, 11:02 PM | #6 |
Join Date: Oct 2013
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Re: Invention Modifiers
I agree that they are incompatible, but have thought of it as reverse-engineering vs. improving:
+5 (reverse engineering): 'We've captured one of their starships intact! Now I can reverse-engineer their fusion drives!' +2 (reverse engineering): 'They have some new siege engine outside the walls. Can I try to make something like that?' +5 (improving): 'I want to make a car that is a bit faster and with better handling than what is available now.' +1 (improving): 'So what I want to build is like a car, but with rockets for jumping. And stealth systems. And armor. And maybe pieces of it can turn into motorcycles.' Those last two, obviously, are the GM's call on just how similar what you're trying to make is. |
12-23-2013, 05:29 PM | #7 |
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Re: Invention Modifiers
So, does the bonus from the Visualisation advantage apply to Invention rolls? Because with the +1/margin of success on IQ roll, and Visualisation (Reliable +10, +50%) [15], you can get some absolutely ridiculous bonuses on pretty much all of your Invention rolls.
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12-23-2013, 05:49 PM | #8 |
Night Watchman
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
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Re: Invention Modifiers
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12-23-2013, 09:32 PM | #9 |
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Re: Invention Modifiers
I don't see how they're incompatible, assuming that "similar to an existing device" means an existing device the inventor is already familiar with, whereas reverse engineering means "inventing".
We've captured an alien ship intact! Now we can reverse engineer it to duplicate their superior technology. Their FTL drive uses a totally novel technology. It's a totally new device, so we don't get the variant bonus. But we have a working copy, so we get the +5. Their life support is totally incompatible. It gains us no useful knowledge. But we have some life support systems, so when we invent our new ship, we can claim the variant on an existing item bonus. Their fusion engines are more efficient than ours, but operate along basically the same lines. We don't have to invent a new engine design, simply a variant of existing designs, so we get the variant bonus. But we ALSO have a working model of the new variant we're trying to invent. So we can claim both bonuses. |
12-23-2013, 10:23 PM | #10 | ||
Petitioner: Word of IN Filk
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Longmont, CO
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Re: Invention Modifiers
Quote:
Already exists: "I'm sick and tired of getting out-shot by those repeating rifles they have. Andre, you've seen them -- think you can build one?" Quote:
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basic set, invention |
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