Unarmed vs. Knife

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

Hang on, the post I responded to said CA,

CA (from a Wait) for the first two hexes of movement into his rear-left hex (alternatively, rear-right). Still need your own turn to get into CC from the rear arc.

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

Thats for the grappler, what about the grappled, it's also after the grapple has been established what about just being in CC

Well, if a grappler needs to Shove People Around, surely the grappled needs it too?
As for just being in CC, it seems to care from what are the entry occurs.

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

right (but only after wait allowing you to string both together without allowing the target a chance to move) and he can still retreat against your step/grapple to CC.

Yes, he can, getting +1 with his Knife Parry.
As for stringing together - that's only fair, for our Wait allowed the opponent to also effectively string together two manoeuvres.

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

yes but at lower skill (sweep is skill -3, trip is skill parry -1) and actually since is expressly says you can attack with trip, I wouldn't allow you to feint with it (offensive trip is basically sweep)

Surely Feint doesn't take the penalty for the attack which it imitates? After all, it doesn't make a weapon Unready for weapons that do after an attack.
Even if you rule that it does, a Feint against 13 vs 12 seems better than nothing.

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

Only how does that make the left hand punch not wild?

Apparently it does (I missed that on first read), unless the enemy has Peripheral Vision. Though I wonder if a Side Kick technique is included in Back Kick; probably not.

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

To be fair I'm not sure I really care how two speedsters with ATR works out, it not really my level of play. I was just pointing out that given the premise of GURPS combat is concurrent action in 1 second cycle, Wait in this scenario risks being abused to an extant that breaks that basic premise.

If Wait doesn't let one still act at one's next turn according to combat sequence, Wait becomes a very poor choice.

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

Only if you Wait-CA double step into his rear left hex, he'll retreat as a response to you penalised attack, ruining you position tactic, he'll then complete his attack (benefiting from the potential chance in position) and you'll be hit with CA defence penalties.

Hmm?
"Wait-CA double-step into his rear-left hex, then Attack into his rear into CC before he gets his turn. "
So he doesn't get to do anything against our CA (we're Feinting), and when we Attack (with a step into CC), he gets his usual runaround Active Defence from a rear arc, trying to Retreat. If he retreated successfully, he can now make his attack, at which point we're in an Attack state, not CA state.

We're still discussing the primary Wait-and-flank double-action tactic? If we went off on the single-action tactic to the fullest, then my answers are indeed off.

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

Thing is to get two attacks in row you still have to be in CC range twice, and you can't do that and get round to flank hex.

And you can't be in CC twice with the double-action tactic; I shouldn't've went on this tangent.

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

Because you can't grab any arm from his back hex, you can only grab in CC.

we seem to constantly talking past each on this one so lets restate.

We need a picture. By 'step into his rear' I meant stepping towards him, into the rear arc of his CC hex. To reiterate:
First hex of movement is from his front hex into his left-front hex.
Second movement from his left-front to his rear-left hex.
Next turn, step into his rear, within his hex, which meets criteria for both 'Close Combat' (same hex) and his rear arc. You're no longer in his side hex, you're behind him, close enough to choke, or to grab his either arm. I'm not sure if my post is enough to visualise it.

Really, this forum needs a standardised way of naming hexes by letter and number, like squares in chess. How about this?

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

And again facing penalties apply for attacks form the back hex(es), where are the rules (other then in TG) for facing and CC?

I'll try to find them eventually.

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

I'm happy to look at all of them But I suggest we do one at a time, because I think were confusing each other because we're not sure which set up we're referring to at each point of the the back and forth here.

Sure we do. Especially with longue-ish posts of ours.

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

That seems reasonable, or course the QC will be based off your Sweep or trip skill, which makes sense its harder to believably pretend to sweep than pretend to punch.

That seems counterintuitive to me. If so, people would never feint-pretend making anything other than the Attack they have the highest level in (e.g. Arm Locks for close combat grappler, Spinning Attack with Technique Mastery for strikers etc.)