01-28-2012, 10:02 AM | #11 | |
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Re: [Low-tech] Historical "enemies"
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01-28-2012, 01:58 PM | #12 | |
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
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Re: [Low-tech] Historical "enemies"
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Pretty much all of the evidence suggests that hoplites DID hold their spears in reverse grip. Last edited by DanHoward; 05-03-2014 at 07:21 PM. |
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01-28-2012, 02:05 PM | #13 |
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
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Re: [Low-tech] Historical "enemies"
The phalanx is no more fancy than a shield wall. The whole point of it was to make untrained fighters effective in combat. Discipline was more important than skill. If the shield wall remained intact then the men stood a good chance of surviving. Most fatalities occurred after one side broke and routed.
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01-28-2012, 02:19 PM | #14 | |
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Charlotte, North Caroline, United States of America, Earth?
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Re: [Low-tech] Historical "enemies"
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The Phalanx is not a magical formation: cramming men together with shields and spears has been a battle-tested technique for millenia, predating the classical greeks. The classical greek argive shield, on the otherhand, is somewhat unique amongst shields for it's construction and especially suited for the massed shoving of greek warfare. Soldier skill should cover fighting in a greek phalanx(though a simple style lens of hoplamachia "stripped down" would work well, too, and compliment soldier), but most greeks should not be especially skilled at this. The "professional" soldier is a mercenary, not a farmer who picks up his aspis and dory and goes to war. Ninjad by Dan, of course. Dagnabbit.
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01-28-2012, 02:58 PM | #15 | |
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Somewhere.
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Re: [Low-tech] Historical "enemies"
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This and this suggest otherwhise, based on common sense. Why would you ever use a 7-foot spear in reverse grip? It would basically halve your reach, limit the angles from which you can attack, make it more awkward to aim your thrusts, and make it basically useless for parrying... while giving you a slightly stronger thrust. Also, it made you look cooler, which is why that pose is often found in vase paintings. Also, there is only one example, a small piece, of what you'd call a "linothorax", from a Mycenian tomb, and nothing suggests it was used as armor; the only time the word was ever used is, as you say, by Homer. It would be like thinking modern soldiers use flintlocks because of poems written in the 1700s... actually, the gap between the time of Homer and that of Pericles is bigger.
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01-28-2012, 03:03 PM | #16 | |
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
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Re: [Low-tech] Historical "enemies"
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http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bronze-Age-M...=5336432714-21 |
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01-28-2012, 03:07 PM | #17 |
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
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Re: [Low-tech] Historical "enemies"
Because it gives power, lets you hit scary targets, lets you throw your spear effectively, makes it easy to adjust if you and your enemy close in, and keeps the butt out of the way of your comrades?
The trouble with "common sense" is that it assumes that knowledge about the topic is common. Very, very few people have played with spear and shield where both the face and the shin are valid targets. Ten years ago we didn't even have a very good idea about what Greek aspides and dorata were like, and we still don't know as much as we would like.
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"It is easier to banish a habit of thought than a piece of knowledge." H. Beam Piper This forum got less aggravating when I started using the ignore feature Last edited by Polydamas; 04-15-2014 at 08:45 AM. |
01-28-2012, 03:08 PM | #18 | ||
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
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Re: [Low-tech] Historical "enemies"
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01-28-2012, 03:09 PM | #19 |
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Somewhere.
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Re: [Low-tech] Historical "enemies"
If you seriously think hoplites held their spears overarm, then I can't even imagine what kind of rubbish your book will be full of.
Drawings from books depict Egyptians wearing some sort of leather vest, although it might as well be padded cloth.
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01-28-2012, 03:23 PM | #20 |
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
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Re: [Low-tech] Historical "enemies"
If anyone is seriously interested in hoplite warfare then check out the Roman Army Talk forum. Many of today's experts frequent that site.
Here are a couple of the most recent relevant threads http://www.ancient-warfare.org/rat.h...d=19&id=287026 http://www.ancient-warfare.org/rat.h...=130921#131034 |
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loadouts, low-tech |
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