12-21-2009, 09:05 AM | #1 |
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Birthplace of the Worst Pizza on the Planet
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How many demons in Hell total and what do they do?
How many demons do you think inhabit Hell?
Let me steal a little wiseacre thunder: Enough All of them. Anyone not on Earth. Okay. Any serious opinions? Corollary question: How do you think the Bands break down demographically? My guess: Belserpahs 12% Djinn 30% Calabim 20% Habbalah 5% Lilim 3% Shedim 15% Impudites15% What do you think the percentages are for each Prince? Still in work, I'm afraid. One would expect Baal to have a larger organization then Asmodeous or Kobal, but paranoia would also be a factor. Your thoughts? |
12-21-2009, 09:43 AM | #2 |
Petitioner: Word of IN Filk
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Longmont, CO
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Re: How many demons in Hell total and what do they do?
The breakdown in Hell probably falls along two lines: 1) For the "opposing angel," how easy is it to violate the dissonance condition? 2) How badly does Hell need this particular band? (Lilith, of course, completely screws up condition 2, since almost everyone needs Lililm but she keeps a tight rein on the supply.)
Given that, I think your percentages make a lot of sense. Here's my rationale, from most frequent to least: 1. Djinn -- Conditions easy to violate, high utility. (Trackers and guards are always handy, even taking a Djinn's surliness into account.) 2. Calabim -- Conditions easy to violate, high utility (Hell needs muscle, to put it bluntly. Granted, you've got to keep these guys on a leash, but they're the closest you're going to get to matching a Malakite on the battlefield.) 3. Shedim -- Conditions easy to violate, mixed utility. (Having someone who can possess others is extremely useful, but the Shedim's approach of "push it until it breaks" can disrupt plans as easily as it can help them ... and they're a lot harder to keep penned up until they're needed than the Freaks are.) 4. Impudites -- Conditions moderately difficult to violate, high utility. (Hell likely makes a fair number of Takers, since their seductive powers can grease a lot of wheels on Earth. It also probably doesn't get as many as it would like from Heaven ... while challenging, a clever Mercurian can avoid violent situations.) 5. Balseraphs -- Conditions moderately difficult to violate, mixed utility (Reverse the Impudite situation -- I would bet Hell gets more falling Seraphim than Mercurians just because, given the covert nature of the setting, it's harder to avoid lying than violence. However, Hell doesn't make as many itself because while a Liar is handy, it's all too easy for him to burn his own side, too. As IPG states, the Liars see themselves as royalty and are really closer to middle managers.) 6. Habbalah -- Conditions difficult to violate, mixed utility (I'd be willing to bet there aren't that many falling Elohim, though that may be a personal quirk of mine -- it just seems that when you're than well-balanced, it's harder to Fall, barring emotional involvement with a mortal or something similar. Their resonance is handy, but hardly essential, and they're "I'm an angel" attitude is likely to be a little grating on those around them ... Princes will likely only make more of this band out of serious need or serious irony.) 7. Lilim -- No opposing Choir, high utility. (Someone who can offer a "deal with the Devil" is handy to say the least, but since only Lilim can make them and not every Tempter chooses to bind, they're going to be the smallest Band by far.)
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“It's not railroading if you offer the PCs tickets and they stampede to the box office, waving their money. Metaphorically speaking” --Elizabeth McCoy, In Nomine Line Editor Author: "What Doesn't Kill Me Makes Me Stronger" |
12-21-2009, 09:51 AM | #3 |
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Birthplace of the Worst Pizza on the Planet
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Re: How many demons in Hell total and what do they do?
Thank you. I never considered it from viewing it as an 'other side' supply issue. I don't think that is a large or reliable supply, so it didn't factor.
I went mostly with a utility aspect and a PR aspect. If Calabim werern't so Discordant and problematic, there would be more. I pretty much agree with your other reasoning (No surprise there) |
12-21-2009, 10:04 AM | #4 | |
Petitioner: Word of IN Filk
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Longmont, CO
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Re: How many demons in Hell total and what do they do?
Quote:
In any event, I think the Heavenly supply mostly serves to either pad a lead or keep things close. For example, I think Falling Seraphim are the main factor that keeps the Balseraphic numbers close to the Impudites ... I don't know if they'd drop to Habbalite levels otherwise, but they'd be less common. And without Falling Kyriotates, you probably have MUCH fewer Shedim.
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“It's not railroading if you offer the PCs tickets and they stampede to the box office, waving their money. Metaphorically speaking” --Elizabeth McCoy, In Nomine Line Editor Author: "What Doesn't Kill Me Makes Me Stronger" |
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12-21-2009, 10:04 AM | #5 |
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bellflower, CA
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Re: How many demons in Hell total and what do they do?
I was thinking about the second question, how much of each Band would a particular Prince/Princess have.
That brought up a couple of questions in my mind 1) Would a Prince or Princess have more of their own Band? For example, Baal is a Balseraph, would he have more Balseraphs in his ranks than...say...Saminga who is a Shedim? 2) Would they be focusing more on how useful a particular Band is to their Word? For instance, I see Beleth having more Habbalahs because they can increase a person's sense of fear whereas it makes more sense for Andrealphus to have more Impudites. What do you think? |
12-21-2009, 10:09 AM | #6 | |
Petitioner: Word of IN Filk
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Longmont, CO
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Re: How many demons in Hell total and what do they do?
Quote:
EDIT: And in reference to the OP, don't discount Asmodeus' numbers. Remember, his folks have the job of infiltrating all the other Princes, plus Renegade hunting, plus corrupting any sense of "justice" on Earth. That implies a fairly large organization.
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“It's not railroading if you offer the PCs tickets and they stampede to the box office, waving their money. Metaphorically speaking” --Elizabeth McCoy, In Nomine Line Editor Author: "What Doesn't Kill Me Makes Me Stronger" |
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12-21-2009, 11:54 AM | #7 |
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Birthplace of the Worst Pizza on the Planet
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Re: How many demons in Hell total and what do they do?
Quality vs Quantity.
I see some Princes focusing on one or another. As far as Asmodeous, one spy can do a LOT. Even 50 spies per Princes isn't that much, but can make such a difference, as Sun Tzu observed. Baal however, needs all the dumb muscle he can get. Unless there is an unfledged Calabim with a Flaming Sword standing on that hill, it isn't really yours, to paraphrase an Army slogan. I try to relate the Princes to real life stuff. Baal is army. Haagenti retail and food. Andrealphus is part of Vice. The question is, what is Asmodeous? I saw him as Infernal Affairs. A vast majority of policing in Hell takes place 'in house'. However, if you see him as the entire Injustice System, that would dramatically change his role and numbers. Last edited by JCD; 12-21-2009 at 12:37 PM. |
12-21-2009, 12:24 PM | #8 |
Petitioner: Word of IN Filk
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Longmont, CO
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Re: How many demons in Hell total and what do they do?
Fair point. By way of example, Nazi Germany had a population of about 80 million at the start of World War II. But at its height, the SS had about 1.25 million employees (if my sources are correct). That sort of proportion doesn't seem out of line for Hell.
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“It's not railroading if you offer the PCs tickets and they stampede to the box office, waving their money. Metaphorically speaking” --Elizabeth McCoy, In Nomine Line Editor Author: "What Doesn't Kill Me Makes Me Stronger" |
12-21-2009, 12:32 PM | #9 | |
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bremerton, WA
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Re: How many demons in Hell total and what do they do?
Quote:
Balseraphs: 19% Djinn: 14% Calabim: 13% Habbalah: 14% Lilim: 9% Shedim 15% Impudites: 15% I generated my numbers by first figuring out how many demons each Superior would have in my city, and then I went down their band attunement list and found out which were most useful (keeping in mind the themes and plots I already had spinning around in my head). I found that Balseraphs were generally speaking very useful for the predominate Princes in my game, I also noticed that Habbalah of factions are just swell. |
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12-21-2009, 12:36 PM | #10 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
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Re: How many demons in Hell total and what do they do?
Quote:
Given Blandy's mission I think she favors her kin. David is likely to have an even mix, due to the different roles for each. Ditto for Gabby, Jean, Jordi, Marc-up and Yves. Dom and Asmo need one third each of liars and stalkers so they're skewed. The knights Novalis would ordinarily get would be shifted off to the war faction. Lightning wheels seem the sort to cause network outages so I doubt there's a whole lot of them.
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