Can Proteus Virus do gengineering that is described in

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Pectus Solentis

I asked except Metamorphosis Virus.
Then, WIll Proteus Virus able to do gengineer that is described in BT Chapter 2 at its own TL normally, except that need Species Modifications?

Realistically most genetic engineering is unlikely to work properly on anything more developed than an embryo. But that's boring in a gear book, people want stuff they can buy to add to their existing character. So Biotech includes several different justifications the GM can use to allow that to be done.

Which ones permit what is often GMs choice - GURPS tech books are not written under the assumption you will allow everything in them, they often have several ways to do similar things, you need to pick and choose. As written non-Metamorphosis Proteus viruses can do things that require genetic or soft tissue changes. But the rules for specific biomods generally *do not specify* which of them involve hard tissue changes, so no, you can't just say the entire Species Modification section, or any other section for that matter, is or is not allowed. You'll need to apply your own judgement.

Generally if it requires a new or reshaped organ, I wouldn't let a Proteus virus do it. If all your organs look the same after a biomod, I probably would. But again for many mods it is not obvious which category the mod is in, so that still comes down to GM judgement.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Pectus Solentis

I didn't asked Germline Gengineering, but asked Already-Born Human Gengineering.

Then your answer accordign to the rules in Bio-tech is _no_.

Changing the whole body genetic code of a post-natal human requires the TL12 Metamorphosis virus. Nothing short of that will do what you're asking about.

[Pectus Solentis]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Then your answer accordign to the rules in Bio-tech is _no_.

Changing the whole body genetic code of a post-natal human requires the TL12 Metamorphosis virus. Nothing short of that will do what you're asking about.

Stop kidding me and read p.BT184. "If the HT roll fails, _the virus begins resequencing thecsunject's DNA and altering his body._" It is that p.BT184 says.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Pectus Solentis

Stop kidding me and read p.BT184. "If the HT roll fails, _the virus begins resequencing thecsunject's DNA and altering his body._" It is that p.BT184 says.

I am not kidding you. Did you read the third paragraph under "Proteus Nanoviruses"?. That paragraph outlines the differences between TL10-11 Proteus viruses and the more sophisticated TL12 Metamorphosis viruses.

Were you condused by the mention of proteus viruses being used in "genetic surgery" earlier on p.184? That's nothing to do with Ch 2. Genetic surgery is explained starting on p.181 and is different from the germline gengineeering in CH2.

[Pectus Solentis]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

I am not kidding you. Did you read the third paragraph under "Proteus Nanoviruses"?

Of course. In the 3rd paragraph there says "a proteus virus can perform really soft changes".

[AlexanderHowl]

Viruses can cause somatic and germline changes in adult creatures without killing them, that is why we have the DNA from dozens of species in our DNA, viruses brought them into the human genome and, because they did not interfere, they were retained. Useful changes are less likely, but they do occur in nature, and we use such techniques in laboratories with mice and rats (with the creation of two genetically enhanced girls this year though, we have officially crossed in early TL9 biotechnology by GURPS definitions). With humans, such changes would require TL10, but they should be possible without creating gross morphological changes, though it is up to the GM to determine where that line exists.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Viruses can cause somatic and germline changes in adult creatures without killing them, that is why we have the DNA from dozens of species in our DNA, viruses brought them into the human genome and, because they did not interfere, they were retained. Useful changes are less likely, but they do occur in nature, and we use such techniques in laboratories with mice and rats (with the creation of two genetically enhanced girls this year though, we have officially crossed in early TL9 biotechnology by GURPS definitions). With humans, such changes would require TL10, but they should be possible without creating gross morphological changes, though it is up to the GM to determine where that line exists.

Actually, those two girls are only a prototype. We don't reach TL9 till the technology is available on the market (or with similar breadth through government agencies or charities).

[Bicorn]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Viruses can cause somatic and germline changes in adult creatures without killing them, that is why we have the DNA from dozens of species in our DNA, viruses brought them into the human genome and, because they did not interfere, they were retained.

The proteus virus isn't literally a virus. It's an organic nanomachine.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by Pectus Solentis

What 'it' means? Proteus Virus, or Chrysalis Machine?

Both actually. Each is a superscience fiction presented as game mechanics.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Since it is a virus, it is possible for it to enter every cell in the body and edit the DNA (heck, that is a TL8 technology for embryos and a TL9 technology for fetuses). In my mind, the limitations are that it cannot change bones (though it can add biomods, but they are not germline changes). I imagine that they could even reprogram native bacteria into symbiotic bacteria and native parasites into symbiotic parasites.

Germline transformations are Hard Sci Fi. Complete transformations are superscience. Decide what your game allows and act accordingly.