10-19-2017, 04:44 PM | #31 | |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: A sack of DFRPG questions!
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10-19-2017, 06:19 PM | #32 |
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Northern Virginia, USA
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Re: A sack of DFRPG questions!
DFRPG is a role-playing game, designed to be played with a GM, who has the power to say "no." So the rules don't have to account for every single edge case. If someone tried making a rich PC whose sole purpose was clearly to die and leave all his stuff to that player's next PC, who didn't pay points for all that gear, I'd wreck that plan, one way or another.
But that doesn't mean all combinations of rich and poor PCs are bad. I've seen a group where the rich PC hired the other PCs. I've seen a group where a rich PC *owned* one of the other PCs. These kinds of power relationships aren't for everyone, but if the group wants to do that, it's fine. |
10-20-2017, 12:11 AM | #33 | |||||||
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Re: A sack of DFRPG questions!
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I was about to ask whether the +1 bonus for a healer's kit means that it's essentially a good-quality healer's kit – but the description makes clear that it's basic equipment. (Which also preempts my follow-up question: "Isn't there a basic-level healer's kit?") So why the +1 bonus? If I'm inferring correctly: If a task can be accomplished by First Aid or Esoteric Medicine, then the healer's kit simply substitutes for a first-aid kit, which would also offer +1; hence the +1 for either kit. (From that bonus, I assume that the $50, 2-lb. first-aid kit itself counts as a good-quality first-aid kit; $10 plain bandages are its merely-basic equivalent.) Do I seem to have that right? As for Esoteric Medicine tasks that don't require a kit: Such tasks could logically exist, sure. But unless I'm missing a key passage, I wouldn't be able to pick that up from the rules text alone. None of the mentioned tasks (weird treatments, etc.) say a kit isn't necessary, while the healer's kit description lays down a pretty authoritative-sounding "Required to use that skill [Esoteric Medicine]". Unless there's a published clarification down the road, I think new players are going to read this as meaning that, yes, a healer's kit is always necessary for Esoteric Medicine (and thus the +1 bonus always applies). While on the topic of kits, a few quick questions with reference to "Equipment Modifiers" (Exploits p7):
Finally, one more question about kits: Are there kits that are required for, or kits that can optionally aid, the following skills?
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In short, I'd be happy to let DFRPG players try this sort of thing; if they all enjoy it, then great. If problems do crop up, the GM should be able to come up with all kinds of subtle discouragements. For example, just the social intricacies of dependence on Moneybags should give at least a little pause to more munchkin-y players. They'll want to keep in mind that, no matter how happily communal the group is in money-sharing, there'll always be that post-sale moment where Moneybags alone holds all the coin. (They do trust him completely, right?) Shady fences in town, and the thieves they deal with, will take note of all this cash flowing through one PC; lots of eyes will be on Moneybags as he makes his rounds of high-priced sales. And merchants who are willing to pay top coin to Moneybags, with his slick Appearance and smooth Charisma, might be less willing to cut sweet deals when he's surrounded by ragged, uncouth adventurer pals. Finally, there's this problem: What if Moneybags – who didn't spend lots of points on sweet dungeon survival abilities – gets clobbered by an ogre? Boom, no more easy income. Me, I'd pay good silver to see this scene of panic play out among a party of Dead Broke PCs: "Guys, don't worry, don't worry! We'll just get Moneybags resurrected! We've picked up at least $15,000 in loot, so we'll go to town, have Moneybags sell it all, and... wait... " Quote:
Good thing they don't negotiate, either. Shaking hands on the deal would not be advised.
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T Bone GURPS stuff and more at the Games Diner: http://www.gamesdiner.com Twitter: @Gamesdiner | RSS: here ⬅︎ Updated RSS link | This forum: Site updates thread (occasionally updated) (Latest goods on site: GLAIVE Mini levels up to v2.4. Update to melee weapon design tool, with more example weapons and commentary.) Last edited by tbone; 10-20-2017 at 01:07 AM. Reason: Edited note on negotiating with corpse golems, as they don't do that. |
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10-20-2017, 07:47 AM | #34 | |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
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Re: A sack of DFRPG questions!
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If Mr. Moneybags starts play with enough equipment to kit up a band of Poor mercenaries to protect him in a dungeon delve, he can certainly give it to them after play starts. Which yes, if you like to drop them in the middle of a fight is going to be an issue for the Poor PCs, but the structure in DFRPG is that you start play In Town, looking for work. Either way, however, if I change my mind about what character I'm going to play six times, I can't dump the wealth of the five unplayed PCs with the rest of the party, because they never existed. It doesn't matter if I changed concepts because I couldn't decide if I was playing a Knight or a Thief, or because the GM had to keep rejecting my character sheets because I couldn't follow the rules to save my life - the Knight and the Thief I didn't play didn't exist any more than the 10-headed ogre I tried to play but was told I was crazy for trying. EDIT: I have been in or GMed for multiple groups where one PC was "The rich noble/wizard/whatever" and the rest of the party were employees; they decided the structure for them splitting the wealth was "payroll". Notably, we had one GURPS DF game where the rich guy also hired an NPC personal servant, a cook, a horse groom, two guards (to protect the surface campsite with all the NPCs while the PCs were down in a dungeon), and a guy to drive the horsecart that they used to haul loot. Which also meant buying food and tents for everyone, but they had a great night watch rotation.
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10-20-2017, 08:38 AM | #35 |
GURPS Line Editor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
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Re: A sack of DFRPG questions!
Many groups (okay . . . most of mine as a GM and several I've been in as a player) do something like this:
Actual play starts after step 7. Steps 6-7 for a party amount to establishing a rationale for working together – a good thing, in general. In effect, the GM lets the players do a little pre-adventure discussion and trading as a reward for not being a rabble with no motivation.
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Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News] |
10-20-2017, 09:11 AM | #36 |
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Re: A sack of DFRPG questions!
I'd also like to bring up that some PCs might have disads that make this level of money trust harder for the PCs (if not the players themselves).
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10-20-2017, 09:31 AM | #37 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, USA, Earth, Sol, Milky Way, Infinity.
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Re: A sack of DFRPG questions!
This is pretty much my thought on the matter. I'm not an adversarial GM, but if someone pulls a stunt like this I just say "Yes, that's very clever. But no." And when they insist, I just remind them the world will set itself right.
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10-20-2017, 10:19 AM | #38 |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: A sack of DFRPG questions!
Kromm's example of the longstanding mercenary company seems to imply that the Moneybags character gave gear to the Dead Broke PCs a long time ago, (which to my mind means they aren't Dead Broke). Then he says that the Dead Broke PCs still start with nothing. Hence I have a confuse.
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10-20-2017, 10:24 AM | #39 |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: A sack of DFRPG questions!
Well mine too, except nothing actually "changes hands" before the game starts and they make characters that reflect the backstory that is established; so if they are for example a longstanding mercenary company they won't all have Dead Broke except for the Very Wealthy captain.
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10-20-2017, 11:11 AM | #40 |
GURPS Line Editor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
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Re: A sack of DFRPG questions!
Dead Broke PCs in a party with not-Dead-Broke PCs who give them gear are still Dead Broke!
Their gear comes from donations – not from starting money or extra money bought with points. They start with nothing bought in a way that allows Signature Gear (or Weapon Bond, unless the GM feels generous). Due to Dead Broke, they cannot spend points on extra money to mitigate that, or for any other reason, and they have no selling power (0%). In effect, they are bottom-of-the-social-ladder individuals who serve a wealthy master who happens to be a fellow adventurer . . . their gear is their master's, not theirs (whence the absence of Signature Gear), and society refuses to accord them any financial privileges (whence the inability to trade points for cash or to sell anything). The only facet of Dead Broke the rich associate lets the others avoid is -$1,000 apiece in gear (worth about -2 points apiece on its own). That wasn't free. The PC providing the gear spent money and possibly points to do so, with all that implies for the party's overall capabilities. Imagine: Team ABoth teams have $20,000 in gear, distributed the same way (1 × $2,500 + 5 × $3,500). Team A averages 245 points in adventure-useful stuff, while Team B averages 245.3 points in adventure-useful stuff. Team A has one person with signature or bonded hardware; Team B has six people with gear like that. Team A has one star seller (sells at 100%), but can't do business if anything happens to that person; Team B has six salespeople who can sell at 40%, possibly a bit better if any have suitable abilities (as any bard, thief, or cleric is likely to). I honestly couldn't tell you which is better – it looks like a genuine coin toss to me. I see Team A spending a lot of time at first rescuing their Very Wealthy pal from danger, because if that person dies, they're out of luck selling treasure; yes, the player could create a replacement, but not right away. I see Team B doing better in battles but not quite as well at getting rich in town. I imagine it comes down to what the players find fun! And regardless of whether anybody gets killed, after the first adventure, starting gear won't matter much anyway and the real meaning of Wealth level will be selling treasure. Having one person be good at that to compensate for the rest isn't any different from having one person having, say, huge reaction bonuses and doing all the negotiating for a group full of people with disadvantages that give reaction penalties.
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Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News] |
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