Dungeon Fantasy Niches & Character Improvement

[Christopher R. Rice]

Dungeon Fantasy GMs, players, and advocates - lend me your spyhorns!

When you allow character points to be spent do you require that all points be spent on template(s) or racial power-ups or do you allow the players free-form to do with their points what they will? Any particular way you go about these things (training, sudden "powers," etc.). I'd really appreciate multiple views on the subject. Thanks much for any and all who answer!

[mlangsdorf]

I generally request that people stick to their template, but there's a lot of advantages to doing so since you reinforce your specialization.

High IQ types tend drop a point in a few useful skills like Diplomacy, Merchant, and Naturalist even if they aren't on template. I usually allow it as long as there isn't someone else with the skill as a focus (such as Bard or Scout for Diplomacy or Naturalist).

There's been a wave of people wanting Imbuement skills recently. I don't really mind, because I'd rather than an advanced Knight be able to burn fatigue and do burn damage or affects insubstantial without having to rely on the wizard than have Extra Attack 2 and skill 26 in their primary weapon.

[Dwarf99]

I like to allow 250 points in any conglomeration of

• a 125 point Henchman Template
• a 62 point Bargain Henchman
• a Race
• a Lens from DF 15
• Spare points to be spent on preexisting skills or powerups that would "logically follow".

As for improvement: I allow reasonable powerups, or possibly things from pyramid articles that I have access to.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

Dungeon Fantasy GMs, players, and advocates - lend me your spyhorns!

When you allow character points to be spent do you require that all points be spent on template(s) or racial power-ups or do you allow the players free-form to do with their points what they will? Any particular way you go about these things (training, sudden "powers," etc.). I'd really appreciate multiple views on the subject. Thanks much for any and all who answer!

The way I've done it:

• You can buy stuff from your template or allowed power-ups.
• You can buy a lens all at once.
• You can buy stuff from a professional template or allowed power-ups if you have the lens for that profession.
• You can go "off-template" but at the increased training costs.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

I usually allow it as long as there isn't someone else with the skill as a focus (such as Bard or Scout for Diplomacy or Naturalist).

I think that's the most important piece of advice in the thread so far. Honestly, I've never had any difficulty dealing with high skill, damage, number of attacks, durability, etc. where that's somebody's clearly established niche. I once ran a campaign where one PC was routinely making six attacks, a second was rolling 5d plus large adds (more like 7d in effect) without invoking any special abilities, yet another was feinting enemies to death at skill 30, and so on, and it was easy enough to deal with: more bad guys, tougher bad guys, bad guys without human weaknesses, etc. Even a modest invasion of a noncombat niche can upset players badly, though . . . in a DF context, bards take a long time to come into their own and have a heavy social investment, so if a party has a bard, I would be strict about a "too bad, so sad" approach to non-social PCs wanting to add social capabilities.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

I usually allow it as long as there isn't someone else with the skill as a focus (such as Bard or Scout for Diplomacy or Naturalist).

Naturalist isn't on the Scout template.

[Kuroshima]

Personally, I encourage people to remain in template (or templates, if they have any cross-template lens) by using the training costs in DF3. Also, my players are quite niche-obsessed, and so instinctively remain in their niches. The problem is usually making them fill a niche that isn't properly covered by any template in the group.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

Personally, I encourage people to remain in template (or templates, if they have any cross-template lens) by using the training costs in DF3. Also, my players are quite niche-obsessed, and so instinctively remain in their niches. The problem is usually making them fill a niche that isn't properly covered by any template in the group.

Yes, this is exactly my experience as well. Usually they'll just hire some poor schlub who can barely fill that empty niche.

[PseudoFenton]

Gain it through play, or rationalise how you got it. Which generally means that most character's invest into thing's they're already good at, or are willing to lay the ground work for.

I prohibit Power Ups unless you have the full underlying template.
I allow incremental gains towards a new profession, but I also charge UB's for each additional profession beyond the first (which rapidly increases in cost).
I generally ask for either meaningful time spent self-training, and/or charge training costs (from hiring tutors to just buying required manuals/tools/etc) when moving into a field of expertise otherwise unrepresented in that character (even if it's on their professions template).

As such to directly answer your questions: No free-form spending, and logical training sequences (even if its just training montages).

Of cause, they also have access to quest rewards which can improve characters. Also, my world has quirky alchemy miscibility, magic that becomes twisted and 'leaky' when it's left to age long enough, fae who will trade abstruse and insubstantial traits or concepts... basically many way's to alter and perhaps improve oneself without ever spending a character point - which has lead to a few interesting means of character development, or at least sideways progression.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Guys, thanks so much! My gaming group just grew from 3 to 6 over night (bunch of my friends moved back!) and I've got another two who want to join in and Dungeon Fantasy just became the "vehicle" to intro folks to GURPS. I feel the days of old are returning where I'm running for twelve or twenty people at he same time (not including my Adversary). I have longed for such days. ;-) Anyways, thanks. I've got a good handle on where things are now. Looks like my Dungeon Fantasy output is probably going to increase in the coming months.

(I'd still appreciate any input others might have, so please, post away!)