Points of Light

[robertsconley]

Originally Posted by demonsbane

I wasn't saying Bill Stoddard is against more or less high point characters. I was talking about Robert, who (I believe) is somewhat tilted to do Fantasy with 150 point characters as can be seen

Yes I like playing GURPS Fantasy at the low end. My current campaign (DMed by Tim Short, my editor) actually is using 75 pts characters. Getting a lot of use out of Ignite Fire. ;-)

Borderland is a situation similar what I run in my Majestic Wilderlands campaign where everyone starts at 100 to 150 points.

The Swamps of Acheron was run with a high level GURPS 3rd edition campaign at a time when the characters had 250 pts and epic magic items.

Wildlands could be easily run using GURPS Fantasy. It uses a lot more out of fantasy folks.

Southland was the result of failing to get permission from Wizards of the Coast to use the boardmap art of the Outdoor Survival Map. So I used my notes, made a new map. It is the most D&D of the four lands although the situation in the Blood Forest is taken directly out of my Majestic Wilderlands run with GURPS.

Despite Points of Light being marketed towards D&D 4th and older edition a lot is derived from a GURPS Fantasy campaign.

[robertsconley]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

I don't think Bill has ever said he has a problem with high point characters (and given his love of super hero gaming, I don't see how he could). AFAICT he doesn't like the DF subgenre because character motivation boils down to "I kill people and take their stuff".

Because of the poor quality of the GURPS Bestiary for the years for Dungeon Crawling I generally deemphasize the monster aspect and go with templated creatures that mostly sentient.

I kill monster and take their stuff was boring in early 3rd edition as the monster fights were boring.

This started to change after the addition of templates and GURPS Vampire the Masquerede book. Blood Types, Shapeshifters, Monsters, Faeries, all added interesting monsters back into my game. Interesting because the different powers and abilities made the fights more interesting.

Currently 4th edition has everything scattered all over the place and not a very complete list of standard D&D style monsters. D&D 4th edition shows how standard monsters can be given a interesting set of attributes and powers and if GURPS Fantasy had the same it would greatly increase it's appeal as an alternative to D&D Fantasy.

[demonsbane]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

(...) AFAICT he [Bill] doesn't like the DF subgenre because character motivation boils down to "I kill people and take their stuff".

Yes, but instead that, I would say "I kill monsters and take their stuff".

OK, there are human or demi-human ready-to-be-killed (or defeated) bandits sometimes, but the constant are the monsters.

Originally Posted by robertsconley

Yes I like playing GURPS Fantasy at the low end. My current campaign (DMed by Tim Short, my editor) actually is using 75 pts characters. Getting a lot of use out of Ignite Fire. ;-)

I understand you. But, isn't this easy to do? For instance: using 4e Fantasy (again, Stoddard's ;^)) as overall backdrop and picking some elements of the Dungeon Fantasy line for the mix, like some cool equipment, powers and somewhat trimmed templates as starting points or suggestions for player characters and NPCs.

I believe Kromm pushed purposefully the standard DF character points to 250 for putting in use some of the GURPS 4e strenghts, as the capability of handling heavily-combat oriented, over-the-top (not sure if this is the expression, but I dislike "cinematic" applied to Fantasy) action adventures. And another reason for this could be trying the breaking of the old 3e prejudice "Ok, but GURPS is good only for gritty games and low fantasy" what keeps popping out in some forums.

And after all, being GURPS Dungeon Fantasy a subset of 4e Fantasy, there must be some compatibility between "both" of them with a few tweaks.

Since seemingly we can't harbor hopes for that different "GURPS Fantasy" book (with templates, bestiary, treasures, etc...) at the middle way between 4e Fantasy and Dungeon Fantasy you were commenting in theRPGSite, it would be interesting to know what do you think about this.

Originally Posted by robertsconley

(...)

I kill monster and take their stuff was boring in early 3rd edition as the monster fights were boring.

This started to change after the addition of templates and GURPS Vampire the Masquerede book. Blood Types, Shapeshifters, Monsters, Faeries, all added interesting monsters back into my game. Interesting because the different powers and abilities made the fights more interesting.

Yes, I agree with this. GURPS 3e books today remain as inestimable game resources. BTW, the creatures depicted and statted in these books you are mentioning are, IMO, much better done -overally speaking- what their D&D counterparts -in the cases where they had one. I make an exception here for most of the stuff in Fantasy Folk (I never liked that one).

Originally Posted by robertsconley

Currently 4th edition has everything scattered all over the place and not a very complete list of standard D&D style monsters. D&D 4th edition shows how standard monsters can be given a interesting set of attributes and powers and if GURPS Fantasy had the same it would greatly increase it's appeal as an alternative to D&D Fantasy.

I haven't glanced D&D IV, so I don't know about this.

But because the lack of a "compilation of dangerous, wondrous and evil creatures" we must continue translating the stats (or the concepts) of the 3e creatures, converting D&D style monsters, or making our own Bad Things ;^)

The sempiternal lack of a proper GURPS Hack & Slash Dungeon Fantasy Bestiary with Chicks in Chain Mail Bikini Skating over Ice is starting to make me to think weird things, as the idea of monsters aren't realistic enough or what they doesn't exist at all! Help!

[robertsconley]

Goodman Games has posted a pdf that has player version of the maps found in Points of Light. The maps omit or distort the information on the GM Map.

http://www.goodman-games.com/4380preview.html

http://www.goodman-games.com/downloa...layers-Map.pdf

Enjoy
Rob Conley

[demonsbane]

Rob, that is excellent and very useful. Thanks.

However, it seems the last link isn't working.

[demonsbane]

Originally Posted by robertsconley

Goodman Games has posted a pdf that has player version of the maps found in Points of Light.

Fixed. The exact url is:

http://www.goodman-games.com/downloa...layers-Map.pdf

Originally Posted by robertsconley

The maps omit or distort the information on the GM Map.

This feature you are mentioning corresponds very well with what is said in Basic Set, Campaigns (p. 491):

....."In a far-past or far-future campaign, the travel map might be the GM’s secret. (Finding a map can be a great adventure objective.)"

It goes without saying this is a very nice initiative from Goodman Games!

Cheers

[robertsconley]

Thanks for fixing the link I am not sure what went wrong.

Rob Conley