New Reality Seeds

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Sorry, George V died early under what seem like mysterious circumstances to Homeline.

Ah, right. Referring to him as George V when he was never king, and is the individual who in Homeline history became George VI is what caused the confusion.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by johndallman

Ah, right. Referring to him as George V when he was never king, and is the individual who in Homeline history became George VI is what caused the confusion.

George V is Edward VIII's father, and is the one who appears to have died early (OTL George V died in 1936), if I'm understanding the post correctly. I don't think Astromancer has said whether Edward's brother died.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

George V is Edward VIII's father, and is the one who appears to have died early (OTL George V died in 1936), if I'm understanding the post correctly. I don't think Astromancer has said whether Edward's brother died.

Right. It was "George VI"'s wife and children who died. Basically, this alternate Edward is a monster.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1

Apart from China, no Homeline nation cares much about Chiang, and even China doesn't do much about it.

I'd note that Homeline, or at least Infinity, has a somewhat pathological hatred of the Nazis. And this not being an echo anymore, they can move against them here without shifting the timeline. I can't imagine the governments of Europe and Israel wouldn't be trying something too. It may not be anybody's main focus - there are after all a lot of worlds to divide your attention among, but somebody will care enough to at least send some assassins or something.

Might also be a good opportunity for some live fire tests of your antisubmarine warfare equipment on targets nobody will object much to you killing.

[a humble lich]

I like this. A Fascist UK replacing Germany would be interesting. A couple thoughts.

Instead of annexing Austria and the Sudetenland, I see the UK annexing Ireland to the complaints of other nations.

A fascist UK would have the advantage that when trying to rearm in the 30's, it would not have to worry about violating the Treaty of Versailles. Like Japan, it would have to worry about the Treaty of Washington when trying to create a super-navy, and like Japan I can see the British using different measures to skirt that treaty until declaring it void.

Italy is screwed. Once war breaks out the Red Army, Werhmacht, and French will be pointed at Rome.

It might be harder for the allies to convince the US to get involved. Ties between the UK and the US were important in our WWII, in this setting it might be hard to convince the US to help Communist Germany and Russia.

I see Britain having a smaller army than the Nazis did, but a massive RAF and large fleet of carriers. Strategic bombing will be important, because it will be hard for the British to invade continental Europe, and even harder for the continental powers to invade the UK.

Edit: in case it's not clear, I was talking about Simpson from Astromancer.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by a humble lich

I like this. A Fascist UK replacing Germany would be interesting. A couple thoughts.

Instead of annexing Austria and the Sudetenland, I see the UK annexing Ireland to the complaints of other nations.

A fascist UK would have the advantage that when trying to rearm in the 30's, it would not have to worry about violating the Treaty of Versailles. Like Japan, it would have to worry about the Treaty of Washington when trying to create a super-navy, and like Japan I can see the British using different measures to skirt that treaty until declaring it void.

Italy is screwed. Once war breaks out the Red Army, Werhmacht, and French will be pointed at Rome.

It might be harder for the allies to convince the US to get involved. Ties between the UK and the US were important in our WWII, in this setting it might be hard to convince the US to help Communist Germany and Russia.

I see Britain having a smaller army than the Nazis did, but a massive RAF and large fleet of carriers. Strategic bombing will be important, because it will be hard for the British to invade continental Europe, and even harder for the continental powers to invade the UK.

Edit: in case it's not clear, I was talking about Simpson from Astromancer.

Annexing Ireland makes sense. The Celts mainly replace the Jewish people in this setting. Although Jews, the Rom, and the Travelers, are all fleeing the British isles as well.

It isn't something most people think of but the end of WWI left a nasty taste in many American mouths. We disliked the Germans but the French and British both acted like they accused the Germans of acting. Or it seemed that way to most Americans. And both the British and French Empires grew by vast amounts after the war. And both Britain and France told America that asking for payment of War Debts was vulgar. France also announced America was going to pay to rebuild France without consulting America before the announcement. We were sour on Britain, France, and Germany.

Now in Homeline history both Britain and France recovered their good reputation with the American people. In this world it's France and Germany that regain their good names. Britain going fascist disgusts America and terrifies Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.

And well they should be scared. A fascist Britain would be deadlier than Nazi Germany for many reasons.

[YankeeGamer]

In this latest timeline, Britain and Japan are both naval power, but I'd expect racism on both sides to slow down cooperation. Once hostilities start, there's a lot of distance between the two of them, too.

Not saying that cooperation won't happen, but it won't be easy or smooth.

[a humble lich]

Originally Posted by YankeeGamer

In this latest timeline, Britain and Japan are both naval power, but I'd expect racism on both sides to slow down cooperation. Once hostilities start, there's a lot of distance between the two of them, too.

Not saying that cooperation won't happen, but it won't be easy or smooth.

That was my initial thought as well, but the distance between them isn't actually that much. Specifically, Japan is pretty close to Hong Kong, Singapore, and India. the UK had a lot of interests in that art of the world, which could lead to more cooperation between the two. Also remember that the UK and Japan were fairly close allies until the 20's in our world.

I would worry in this timeline is that the UK wouldn't have a large enough land force to occupy the continent. This could lead to a similar environment to the Napoleonic wars where both sides were at a stalemate.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Try this one...

In most worlds Edward VIII was merely unsuited to the job of king and his choice of a wife simply sealed the deal. On Simpson Edward was a cool calculating scoundrel who hated democracy. The mysterious early deaths of George V and his brother's wife and daughters is beginning to be seen as the acts of a cunning serial killer on Homeline. Although there are those who suggest the sudden deaths perhaps warped Edward.

Still, the personal alliance between Edward and Oswald Mosley has, in this world, turned Britain Fascist. It should be noted that both men are far more capable and cunning than their Homeline counterparts ever were.

Meanwhile, in Germany, a minor Bavarian political party attempted a Putsch. The leader died in the fighting but it acted as a warning call to the nation's elites. Either make a deal with the Left, or be at the mercy of the Right. Lucky for Germany a woman thought dead showed back up having spent years recuperating from violent injuries in the German Revolution of 1918-1919. Yes Red Rosa was here to save Germany. She knew she couldn't get the Socialism she wanted, but she got a socialism that worked for a broad alliance of Germans.

It's now 1940. Progressive Democratic Socialist Germany, now allied with France and an untrustworthy Russia (Rosa and Stalin loath each other, but make nice in public) against the Axis powers of Britain, Italy, and Japan. Canada has proclaimed independence and America is supporting them. Australia and New Zealand, terrified of both Japan and the horrible transformations of Britain bide their time praying for an opportunity to survive. India is roiling with riots and bloodshed since Gandhi's assassination. Luckily B. R. Ambedkar has risen up to lead the fight for justice.China is in the same hell they were in Homelin's history. Ireland's people have been made to flee their Island (although many are in mysterious camps) many Welsh, Cornish, and Scots, also flee as do the Jews, and others called Mud-People.

Basically, WWII with the roles of Britain and Germany switched. This would be a deadlier WWII. The British Navy means that Japan and Britain can work together as Germany and Japan never could or really wanted to.

This is meant to be a Q6 low manna world. Homeline is lining up with the USA, Canada, Germany, and France. Stalin is working to to deal with Japanese threats and might stay out of the war between "the Imperialists." Centrum dislikes this Britain, and is seeking to grab influence in the USA and Canada. The Cabal is simply in it for the mystic lore and magical relics, and those are mainly in Egypt and Southwest Asia.

There are a few problems with this seed.

First, Edward VIII can't do that much, no matter how unscrupulous and cunning he is. He reigns but he doesn't rule.

Second, without the German Nazis being in power, the BUF (British Union of Fascists) does not have them to emulate, so they don't adopt Nazi views (and don't have a break-up that results in a British Nazi party alongside the BUF).

Third, Canada, Australia and New Zealand don't need to declare independence. They've been de facto independent since signing the Treaty of Versailles in 1919.

Fourth, and the biggest problem with getting WWII out of this, the BUF isn't looking for territorial expansion. Being protectionist, they're far more likely to get rid of their colonies and dominion alliances to keep "non-UK" subjects out of the UK, helping to alleviate the unemployment problem.

Fifth, having just gotten the Irish problem solved (for a time), they are highly unlikely to annex the Dominion of Erie, especially as it might allow all those poverty-stricken Irish into the rest of the UK.

Sixth, the BUF is unlikely to horrify Canada. Given the high proportion of woman suffragettes in the party, it may well result in a Canadian version of the party and since Canada doesn't have an entrenched House of Lords, the proposal for the Senate to be composed of 'notables' is going to be less controversial, as long as Quebec doesn't lose its representation.

Seventh, there will likely be a political tussle in the UK over replacing the House of Lords with a Senate. Replacing the Cabinet with a five-ministers-without-portfolio War Cabinet is going to be a difficult sell as well. It's going to be an especially hard sell in federal states like Canada, Australia and South Africa.

Australia and New Zealand aren't particularly likely to fear Japan as long as the UK remains in the far east with a reasonable sized navy. If the UK starts withdrawing, then things change in a hurry. But there is a possibility that Australia and New Zealand might ally with Japan rather than opposing it.

A more interesting set of problems will be who allies with who during the Spanish Civil War and does the UK feel any need to pull Mussolini's chestnuts out of the fire in Africa.

[Curmudgeon]

Simpson-2

Edward VIII succeeds George V. His brother George VI's line was extinguished circa 1930.

The Commonwealth Realm splits up. Prince Henry becomes King Henry IX of Australia and New Zealand. George, Duke of Kent becomes King George VI of the Union of South Africa and Princess Mary becomes Queen Mary III of Canada.

The family presents a mostly united front to the rest of the world but there are tensions and Edward VIII is hard put to keep a "first-among-equals" position.