Why are Beam Weapons defaults so much harsher than Guns defaults?

[awesomenessofme1]

I don't see any reason why Guns (Pistol) should default from Guns (Rifle)-2 when Beam Weapons (Pistol) defaults from Beam Weapons (Rifle)-4. If anything, it seems to me like it would be easier to shift between different types of beam weapons.

[Varyon]

It's largely a function of there being an excessive number of Guns skills, but only three Beam Weapons skills. It may also be a simplification (Pistol would probably default to SMG at -2 but to everything else at -4). Using the much better rules from "Alternate Guns Specialties and Techniques" (Pyramid #3/65) consolidates the Gun skills into only 3 - Pistol, Long Arm, and LAW - with each defaulting to each other at -4, matching up much better with the way Beam Weapons works.

[johndallman]

This may be an oversight in the change from 3e to 4e. In 3e, there were three gun-type skills:

• Black Powder Weapons, which applied to all black-powder small-arms, irrespective of type, although familiarity mattered.
• Guns, which applied to cartridge small-arms, and had defaults of -4 to different types.
• Beam Weapons, which required specialisation and had a default of -4 between types.

In High-Tech for 3e, Black Powder Weapons and Guns were given extensive lists of specialisations and defaults between them, many of them much easier than -4. There isn't a similar list of specialisations for Beam Weapons in either of the Compendiums, Ultra-Tech or Ultra-Tech 2 for 3e; there is one in Space for 3e, although it does not cover all the types in Ultra-Tech, nor does it specify defaults between them.

So it may be that the lists from 3e High-Tech got imported into the 4e Basic Set, during which Black Powder Weapons was merged into Guns, but Beam Weapons was left alone.

[cptbutton]

Digressing, I recall the GURPS Vorkosigan Saga playtest had separate skills for stunners, nerve disruptors, and plasma arcs, the three standard hand weapons in the setting. I questioned the choice of the skills in the templates for officers versus enlisted men, which seemed odd to me.

In the published version, they were all rolled into a Bean Weapons skill, making my objections moot.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by cptbutton

Digressing, I recall the GURPS Vorkosigan Saga playtest had separate skills for stunners, nerve disruptors, and plasma arcs, the three standard hand weapons in the setting. I questioned the choice of the skills in the templates for officers versus enlisted men, which seemed odd to me.

In the published version, they were all rolled into a Bean Weapons skill, making my objections moot.

I'm sure 'Bean' Weapons is a typo, but it also sounds like an interesting (or funny) idea. Something for Bio-Tech, maybe?

[Mark Skarr]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

I'm sure 'Bean' Weapons is a typo, but it also sounds like an interesting (or funny) idea. Something for Bio-Tech, maybe?

I, too, am interested in these heretofore-unknown "bean" weapons.

Myself, for most games, I usually expand beam weapons a little further. I'll usually have Beam Weapon (Laser Pistol) and Beam Weapon (Blaster Pistol) as, in many of my games, the two are not identical. Basically, I break it into "beam weapons that don't have recoil," "beam weapons that do have recoil," and "beam weapons that are otherwise unusual."

I also add "Gunner (Starship)" and the like for events when the characters are using a fire-control system and not directly interacting with the weapons. I also use "Gunner (BattleMech)" for the same reason.

To be honest, I think "bean" weapons would be a specialization of the Guns skill.

[Phantasm]

I tend to use four Beam Weapon specialties for Beam Weapons:

Pistol = Any one-handed directed energy weapon
Rifle = Any two-handed directed energy weapon used in the traditional long arm sense, whether fired standing or prone
Squad Support Weapon (SSW) = Any two-handed directed energy weapon fired "from the hip", most often (but not always) with high Rates of Fire (10! to 66!); can also be called "Assault Cannon"
Wrist Gun = Any directed energy weapon that's worn strapped to the wrist or forearm rather than held in the hands.

For the most part, I've kept the -4 between them. I've considered using -2 between Pistol and Wrist Gun, and between Rifle and SSW, but keeping the -4 between the other types.


For Guns, I use the three specialties from the Pyramid article* and Wrist Gun (seen in a sidebox in High-Tech), though I generally don't use the Autofire technique. I haven't messed with typical defaults yet, though I put Wrist Gun at -2 from Pistol and -4 from the other two, and vice verse.


Gunner, I generally leave alone.


Most of the time, I don't have players using weapons they aren't trained in, so the defaults don't really matter except during chargen by people squeezing every little bit of optimization they can.



* I use the four specialty spread in my games, though in my Marvel Reboot project I'm sticking primarily with the Basic Set.

[cptbutton]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

I'm sure 'Bean' Weapons is a typo, but it also sounds like an interesting (or funny) idea. Something for Bio-Tech, maybe?

Actually those are over in the extremely rare GURPS Ninja High School with the endless rivalry between Professor Steamhead ("The World Will Be Saved By Steam!") and Professor Beanhead ("The World Will Be Saved By Beans!")

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Phantasm

Pistol = Any one-handed directed energy weapon
Rifle = Any two-handed directed energy weapon used in the traditional long arm sense, whether fired standing or prone
Squad Support Weapon (SSW) = Any two-handed directed energy weapon fired "from the hip", most often (but not always) with high Rates of Fire (10! to 66!); can also be called "Assault Cannon"
Wrist Gun = Any directed energy weapon that's worn strapped to the wrist or forearm rather than held in the hands.

Wrist Gun probably is distinct enough from Pistol to justify a separate specialization, although as you note it probably has a more favorable default with Pistol than elsewhere. I considered SSW (although I would have just called it Support; if I opt to use it, totally stealing your name for it) for my DEW skills thread (which I made largely due to thoughts stirred up by this thread), but it seems like its use wouldn't be that distinct from a rifle fired at the hip, it just lacks the ability to be shoulder-fired (although I could see a folding bipod that lets you set it up as a crew-serviced weapon, potentially allowing such). That feels more like Familiarity than a separate skill.

Originally Posted by Phantasm

For Guns, I use the three specialties from the Pyramid article* and Wrist Gun (seen in a sidebox in High-Tech), though I generally don't use the Autofire technique. I haven't messed with typical defaults yet, though I put Wrist Gun at -2 from Pistol and -4 from the other two, and vice verse.

If you use SSW for beam weapons, I'd suggest using it for Guns as well, at least if your setting has weapons like the modified man-portable M134 from Predator and Terminator 2, or the M56 Smart Gun from Aliens. This does create a bit of an imbalance between Beam Weapons and Guns (4 skills vs 5 - or 3 vs 4 if you fold SSW into Rifle/Longarm), but that's because there really isn't a Beam Weapon equivalent to LAW (although I suppose you could make a shoulder-carry heavy beam weapon, but it would feel kind of forced). Reintroducing Projector can rebalance things, although as I note in the other thread that seems like it should be a Technique, or at least just a Familiarity.