Yrth technology

[sjard]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

Said clever transportee from earth would most likely get snapped up right quick by the Ministry of Serendipity or equivalent technology repressing agency, mind-wiped, and released back into society in less time than it takes to say "Ow my head," at least according to cannon.

I guess that would depend on your interperetation of what is written there. My read is that this would indeed happen, however it would be a selective mind wipe getting rid of only those ideas and concepts that are not wanted (read considered dangerous to the powers that be).

Germ Theory, fingerprints, and other bits that made it through are examples of things that were looked at and not removed. As opposed to the "Bleepity bleep bleep, we missed something." school of thought.

Of course anything you decide to let through this way should involve careful consideration as to what it will do.

Leaving aside social issues (politics, religion etc) the biggies that seem to have been blocked are Gunpowder and later weapons tech, Steam power, and Electricity. The later two alone would keep most of society at TL-4 and weapons tech at TL-3.

As for magic changing Yrth significantly, I've always looked at it as magic is great for the occasional use. Using it to the point of effectively replacing TL5+ technology requires far too much effort on the part of a very small group of people.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

And technology? What do you do with that?

It always struck me that Technomancer was what Yrth should be.

I don't go all industrial like Technomancer . . . I believe that industrialization requires certain specific links in a chain that you probably won't get without a mix of methodical scientific innovation and the ability to put piecework in the hands of even the least-talented worker. Since magic isn't scientific and does in fact require particular talents, I don't think it would ever get there on its own. That works in Technomancer because industrialism developed the usual way and magic came in afterward and was hammered into the industrial model; magic didn't have to bootstrap itself to that level.

However, I do tend to lean toward magic meeting needs: magical water supplies that create water, magical sewers that remove waste, magical doctors who cure plagues, etc. This leads to cleaner cities, longer lifespans, and more modern-looking situations.

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

Said clever transportee from earth would most likely get snapped up right quick by the Ministry of Serendipity or equivalent technology repressing agency, mind-wiped, and released back into society in less time than it takes to say "Ow my head," at least according to cannon.

I've never bought into that aspect of the canon. In my campaigns -- which run to high-powered -- I tried to have the Ministry suppress stuff like this when the PCs got their hands on it. The archmage PCs . . . with their Weapon Master PC bodyguards . . . in their isolated strongholds filled with magical booty and illicit technology.

Unless the Ministry can call on circles of wizards and entire legions in foreign lands, has no problem with very public destruction, and can afford to sustain losses in the upper thousands, I can't see how they could suppress powerful renegades who have a potent mix of technology and magic, and who have garnered massive public support by being willing to share with anyone who's tired of being a repressed serf. Played in a remotely plausible way, it will end up looking more like Dune than Men in Black. I've yet to figure out how the Ministry could do a darn thing about magical ships with cannon off the west coast of Ytarria, say, or convince the Dwarves not to use steam-tech down in their mines.

[griffin]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

Said clever transportee from earth would most likely get snapped up right quick by the Ministry of Serendipity or equivalent technology repressing agency, mind-wiped, and released back into society in less time than it takes to say "Ow my head," at least according to cannon.

As far as the Black Company reference, are you talking about the massively scary spellcasters who threw waves of killer energy at lines of troops? I mean, I know there was a lot of logistical information passed along as well, but the casters in (at least the first few) of the Black Company novels were the scariest mofos on the battlefield. Looks like a textbook example of magic-as-powers to me, for a lot of it.

I thnk he's talking about the old spell casters in the Black Company not the archmages the Lady, Limper, etc. The few old mages in the Black Company mostly used less flashy spells early one. As the series progressed they tossed about fire balls and some more flashy spells, stuff like Mass Sleep. For the most part the used their skills to do recon and provide deception. Most of the early stuff could easily be handled by stock GURPS Magic spells.

The archmages would probably best be handled by either Powers, or giving them standard GURPS Magic spells and very high-levels of magery with loads of extra fatigue - not to mention advantages like Unkillable.

[David Johnston2]

It's not unbelievable all things considered for technological development in Yrth to be retarded as long as it is kept to itself. For example, Yrth has much more efficient ways to deal with pumping out flooded mines than inventing the steam engine. What Yrth really needs though is a good anti-gun spell.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

What Yrth really needs though is a good anti-gun spell.

Personally, I suspect that if Missile Shield and Reverse Missiles were at all common, guns wouldn't be nearly as popular as bigger, badder, deadlier melee weapons, like polearms with shaped charges on the end. What's really missing is a spell that's at all useful against explosions. Beyond sitting in a Force Dome, there really isn't one.

[Anthony]

My meta-assumption about suppression of guns in Yrth is that the MoS isn't really all that efficient; the real problem is fire elementals. My assumption:
1) Fire elementals can be spontaneously generated by large or intense fires.
2) Fire elementals like explosives.
3) Fire elementals like just about all forms of fuel.

This combines to make explosives and internal combustion engines extremely unreliable. The MoS just takes credit when the explosives factory spontaneously blows up.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Personally, I suspect that if Missile Shield and Reverse Missiles were at all common, guns wouldn't be nearly as popular as bigger, badder, deadlier melee weapons, like polearms with shaped charges on the end. What's really missing is a spell that's at all useful against explosions. Beyond sitting in a Force Dome, there really isn't one.

Resist Pressure should be effective against the direct effects of blast, though it won't do much against fragmentation, which is the big killer anyway.

[Crakkerjakk]

Shouldn't Missile Shield stop fragmentation as well? Or is missile shield only good against missiles thrown by an intelligent will or something?

Ah, in the description(M168) it says it works against shrapnel. Voila, proof against explosions(Combined with Resist Pressure).

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Personally, I suspect that if Missile Shield and Reverse Missiles were at all common, guns wouldn't be nearly as popular as bigger, badder, deadlier melee weapons, like polearms with shaped charges on the end. What's really missing is a spell that's at all useful against explosions. Beyond sitting in a Force Dome, there really isn't one.

Your own choice of Phase is quite good against explosions.

...and I'd let somebody else have the glory of using those grenades on a stick. Being killed by fragments of my own stick seems very likely to me.

Really, 4e explosions (concussive blast damage to be specific) tapers off so quickly that even small amounts of distance reduce very large explosions quickly. Missile Shield does protect against fragmentation.

So the 105mm howitzer from High Tech only does 5dx5 concussion. The 87ps in the same hex is impressive but 3 yards away it's only 3 pts.

Hunting down talented mages with large concussion munitions looks like a fairly limited strategy. Unless you can your targeting fixes totally unobserved (and there's a Sense Observation spell) they'll just evacuate the area faster than you can bring the heavy ordinance to bear on them.

As for mines and booby traps they'll be easily spotted by See Secrets unless you use a lot of Conceal Magic.

So using concussive blasts on mages is _a_ strategy but not really an overwhelming one.

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Personally, I suspect that if Missile Shield and Reverse Missiles were at all common, guns wouldn't be nearly as popular as bigger, badder, deadlier melee weapons, like polearms with shaped charges on the end. What's really missing is a spell that's at all useful against explosions. Beyond sitting in a Force Dome, there really isn't one.

Fireproof already stops guns and explosives from working, though it takes 5 minutes to cast.

For faster defensive use we could have:

Stop Explosion

Blocking

Stops explosions about to hit the subject from one source - including grenades, ammo being fired from a gun, mines, etc. Counts as a parry for combat purposes. If the caster is not the subject, or the explosion is not touching the subject, apply distance penalties as for a Regular spell. Stopped ammo/explosives may be reused at -2 Malf.

Cost: 1.
Prerequisites: Magery 1 and Fireproof.