Pricing Basic Speed (Initiative Only)

[JCurwen3]

I wondered what the price would be to buy just "initiative" (earlier turn sequence order). Basic Speed gives Dodge, Basic Move, and initiative. You can sell down Basic Move for 5/yard - so it seems like it'd be fair to simply buy Basic Speed with the limitation "Doesn't add to Basic Move" (-25%) for the same effect and total price.

And as for Dodge, I asked some time ago about a reasonable value for Reduced Dodge (and other defenses):

Originally Posted by Kromm

I would probably price Reduced Dodge at -5 points/level, Reduced Parry at -1 point/level, and Reduced Block at -1 point/level, and I would make the prerequisite for all three "No Combat Reflexes," and add "at least 2 points in the combat skill per level" for Reduced Block/Parry.

So with Reduced Dodge priced at 5/level, that suggests the same -25% value for a "Doesn't add to Dodge" limitation.

So "Initiative only" would be -50%, right? Does that seem reasonable?

[B9anders]

I would simply make it "only adds to initiative, -80%".

It really is the smallest part of Basic Speed.

[Anthony]

Positives and negatives frequently do not have the same cost -- reduced dodge might be priced at -5, but increased dodge is priced at +15. I'd probably give -50% for not affecting dodge.

[Ji ji]

I can't see the point for a similar limitation instead of buying regular BS and selling BM and dodge.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Ji ji

I can't see the point for a similar limitation instead of buying regular BS and selling BM and dodge.

You can't sell dodge.

[JCurwen3]

Originally Posted by Anthony

You can't sell dodge.

Exactly, you can't, not canonically by RAW; the advice given by Kromm notwithstanding.

There is also the disadvantage limit (if any is used) to consider. All that buying up and selling down cuts into that, which is silly if the only goal is to improve Initiative separately.

[gilbertocarlos]

from the 20 points of basic speed, 15 are to Dodge, 5 are to move, I would probably say that -80% is the least amount of discount.

[B9anders]

And even besides the fact that adding to initiative is basically the free part of Basic Speed, 4 points per added point of "Initiative!" actually strikes me as a bit pricey for what you get out of it.

[ericthered]

well, for 45 points (and likely 30, if you consider that you have combat reflexes for such a character in most cases) you can be faster than anyone else via enhanced time sense, so that should be a ball park answer. If you were to spend those 45 points on a "increased initiative" worth 5 points per .25 you'd increase it by 2.25, which is nice, but no where close enough to win absolutely everything.

I'd say that 5 points of speed is enough to approach "superhuman", where you've maxed stuff out and ETS should be just as effective. That means 30 CP should give 5 points of initiative, or about 1.5 CP per .25 basic initiative.

On the other hand, the advantage is very powerful in some settings, particularly in the "fast draw" category.

[B9anders]

Originally Posted by ericthered

well, for 45 points (and likely 30, if you consider that you have combat reflexes for such a character in most cases) you can be faster than anyone else via enhanced time sense, so that should be a ball park answer. If you were to spend those 45 points on a "increased initiative" worth 5 points per .25 you'd increase it by 2.25, which is nice, but no where close enough to win absolutely everything.

I'd say that 5 points of speed is enough to approach "superhuman", where you've maxed stuff out and ETS should be just as effective. That means 30 CP should give 5 points of initiative, or about 1.5 CP per .25 basic initiative.

On the other hand, the advantage is very powerful in some settings, particularly in the "fast draw" category.

There is a lot more to ETS than simply "Combat Reflexes+acting first."