Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-26-2014, 02:18 AM   #31
Michael Thayne
 
Michael Thayne's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Default Re: Pyramid #3/72: Alternate Dungeons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaldon View Post
Curious how "Pointless Slaying and Looting" would work with Ritual Path Magic?

Maybe a "Ritual Path!" that can not be raised higher than "Arcane Lore!"
Ditto. I'm not sure you'd want to limit Ritual Path! that way though. Magery (RPM) is arguably Mana Reserve 3 [9] + Perk (Increase maximum ritual path level by 1) [1]. And the "pointless" approach seems to favor simplifying details like that. Just have the necessary Unusual Background as a Major ability which allows unlimited Ritual Path! levels and then do... I don't know what to determine the size of the mana reserve.
Michael Thayne is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2014, 08:29 AM   #32
Christopher R. Rice
 
Christopher R. Rice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
Default Re: Pyramid #3/72: Alternate Dungeons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaldon View Post
Curious how "Pointless Slaying and Looting" would work with Ritual Path Magic?

Maybe a "Ritual Path!" that can not be raised higher than "Arcane Lore!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Thayne View Post
Ditto. I'm not sure you'd want to limit Ritual Path! that way though. Magery (RPM) is arguably Mana Reserve 3 [9] + Perk (Increase maximum ritual path level by 1) [1]. And the "pointless" approach seems to favor simplifying details like that. Just have the necessary Unusual Background as a Major ability which allows unlimited Ritual Path! levels and then do... I don't know what to determine the size of the mana reserve.
I'd just do this as Wizardly Energy without a limit on the levels you can have and Wizardry or Minor Wizardry to enable its use. I would not put all the Paths into a single wildcard skill - that is a bad idea. Instead, price each Path at IQ+1 which consumes a single slot. Ritual Adept would be a greater ability that costs 2 slots instead of one. Everything elsei s probably the same.
__________________
My Twitter
My w23 Stuff
My Blog

Latest GURPS Book: Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Thieves
Latest TFT Book: The Sunken Library

Become a Patron!
Christopher R. Rice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2014, 09:43 AM   #33
Michael Thayne
 
Michael Thayne's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Default Re: Pyramid #3/72: Alternate Dungeons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
I'd just do this as Wizardly Energy without a limit on the levels you can have and Wizardry or Minor Wizardry to enable its use. I would not put all the Paths into a single wildcard skill - that is a bad idea. Instead, price each Path at IQ+1 which consumes a single slot. Ritual Adept would be a greater ability that costs 2 slots instead of one. Everything elsei s probably the same.
This is a tempting thought when you consider Path skills are all Very Hard... but remember, we're talking about paying 12 points to raise a narrow subset of IQ-based skills whereas IQ +1 is only 20 points (this is possibly yet another argument for splitting IQ fro Will and Per, though).

If you're worried about the balance issues with a Ritual Path! skill, I'd just add an Unusual Background tax of 10-30 points. 30 points is enough to pay for two levels of the Natural Caster talent, effectively making all Ritual Path skills Average skills. Probably 15 points for the UB is fairest, TBH. For "Pointless GURPS" purposes, I'd roll that into the Major Ability, but maybe you could argue for making any access to Ritual Path Magic a Greater Ability (i.e. the equivalent of 40 points).
Michael Thayne is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2014, 10:05 AM   #34
Christopher R. Rice
 
Christopher R. Rice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
Default Re: Pyramid #3/72: Alternate Dungeons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Thayne View Post
This is a tempting thought when you consider Path skills are all Very Hard... but remember, we're talking about paying 12 points to raise a narrow subset of IQ-based skills whereas IQ +1 is only 20 points (this is possibly yet another argument for splitting IQ fro Will and Per, though).
I've actually used a Path! skill for RPM - it doesn't work. At all. It's so gamebreaking that when you add in Wildcard points it's almost a "I win" button. You could change that for your games of course - but I wouldn't and I wouldn't endorse either. That said I have put out a (Patreon patron only) article about this on my blog that takes of multiple ways to use Wildcard Path skills...just not like you'd think.
__________________
My Twitter
My w23 Stuff
My Blog

Latest GURPS Book: Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Thieves
Latest TFT Book: The Sunken Library

Become a Patron!
Christopher R. Rice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2014, 10:11 AM   #35
DouglasCole
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
 
DouglasCole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
Default Re: Pyramid #3/72: Alternate Dungeons

I comment on Dungeons of Mars, by Phil Masters, on using the Dungeon Fantasy tropes and techniques to enable the planetary romance genre. The article is part retrospective, but the majority of it is dissecting the elements of planetary romance and relating them to the usual care-abouts in a DF game.
__________________
My blog:Gaming Ballistic, LLC
My Store: Gaming Ballistic on Shopify
My Patreon: Gaming Ballistic on Patreon
DouglasCole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2014, 10:15 AM   #36
Langy
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: CA
Default Re: Pyramid #3/72: Alternate Dungeons

I wouldn't make a single RPM Path skill be a Wildcard skill by itself; that's a terrible idea and terribly throws balance out the window. Instead, I'd have a single Ritual Magic! Wildcard, along with Path abilities (so one for Path of Magic, one for Path of Body, and so on). Each Path would come in two levels; at the first level, you can use Ritual Magic! for that path; at the second level, you get a +3 bonus with that Path. Any Path ability you lack, you can still cast at a default of -3 to your Ritual Magic! Wildcard.

Or something like that; I'm not set in my ways.
Langy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2014, 11:05 AM   #37
Michael Thayne
 
Michael Thayne's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Default Re: Pyramid #3/72: Alternate Dungeons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
I've actually used a Path! skill for RPM - it doesn't work. At all. It's so gamebreaking that when you add in Wildcard points it's almost a "I win" button. You could change that for your games of course - but I wouldn't and I wouldn't endorse either. That said I have put out a (Patreon patron only) article about this on my blog that takes of multiple ways to use Wildcard Path skills...just not like you'd think.
I am inclined to listen to the voice of experience, but... have you tried it with unusual background taxes? Keeping Magery limits? Similar balance measures?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Langy View Post
I wouldn't make a single RPM Path skill be a Wildcard skill by itself; that's a terrible idea and terribly throws balance out the window. Instead, I'd have a single Ritual Magic! Wildcard, along with Path abilities (so one for Path of Magic, one for Path of Body, and so on). Each Path would come in two levels; at the first level, you can use Ritual Magic! for that path; at the second level, you get a +3 bonus with that Path. Any Path ability you lack, you can still cast at a default of -3 to your Ritual Magic! Wildcard.

Or something like that; I'm not set in my ways.
I can see something like this working.
Michael Thayne is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2014, 11:20 AM   #38
Christopher R. Rice
 
Christopher R. Rice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
Default Re: Pyramid #3/72: Alternate Dungeons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Thayne View Post
I am inclined to listen to the voice of experience, but... have you tried it with unusual background taxes? Keeping Magery limits? Similar balance measures?
Yes. I'm extremely good at guesstimating Unusual Background costs and it simply did not work. It's just too broad. Magery is the only limiter when you use Wildcard skills because it makes no sense for you to have a single VH skill keeping a limit on your WC skills - I even tried separating them and it just didn't work. And thank you for your patronage, good sir! :-) I've got some good stuff coming up in the next few months.
__________________
My Twitter
My w23 Stuff
My Blog

Latest GURPS Book: Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Thieves
Latest TFT Book: The Sunken Library

Become a Patron!
Christopher R. Rice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2014, 11:26 AM   #39
Michael Thayne
 
Michael Thayne's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Default Re: Pyramid #3/72: Alternate Dungeons

Hmmm... so I've been thinking of doing a "GURPS Supers Lite" where each ability is 60 points. Then you could do this system:

Ritual Magic: Magery 0 [5] + Ritual Adept [40] + Unusual Background (Can learn the Magic! skill and use it for ritual path magic) [15].
Improved Ritual Magic: Magery +6 [60].

In terms of description written for newbie players, it would just say:

Quote:
Ritual Magic: you may use the Magic! skill to perform magical rituals [see rules for ritual magic that don't even consider the possibility of not having ritual adept]. Without this ability, use of Magic! is strictly limited to magical knowledge. Your skill for this purpose is capped at 12. The number of conditional rituals you can have active at a time is limited by your Magic! skill.

Improved Ritual Magic (Prerequisite: Ritual Magic): Your maximum skill level for ritual magic is raised to 18. You have an 18-point mana reserve [explanation of mana reserve]. The number of conditional rituals you can have active at a time is raised to Magic!+6. If the GM allows multiple levels of this ability, each level raises your maximum skill for ritual magic and number of allowed conditional rituals by 6, and gives you an additional 18 points of mana reserve.
Michael Thayne is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2014, 11:33 AM   #40
Christopher R. Rice
 
Christopher R. Rice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
Default Re: Pyramid #3/72: Alternate Dungeons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Thayne View Post
Hmmm... so I've been thinking of doing a "GURPS Supers Lite" where each ability is 60 points. Then you could do this system:

Ritual Magic: Magery 0 [5] + Ritual Adept [40] + Unusual Background (Can learn the Magic! skill and use it for ritual path magic) [15].
Improved Ritual Magic: Magery +6 [60].

In terms of description written for newbie players, it would just say:
That's pretty cool. I've given Sean's article another read and I think I might do something like this as a Pyramid article for Monster Hunters if there is enough clamor for it. It's a idea worth repeating. :-)
__________________
My Twitter
My w23 Stuff
My Blog

Latest GURPS Book: Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Thieves
Latest TFT Book: The Sunken Library

Become a Patron!
Christopher R. Rice is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
dungeon fantasy, pyramid 3/72, pyramid issues

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.