Help with a Grim Survival DF Setting

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by DAT

The more problematic issue is training. I may default to self training, or being trained by other Redeemers. Any thoughts?

Drop the training rules, and allow each character to buy the stuff that is "allowed" by his template, including Power-Ups traits, with experience CP. Problem solved.

Also note the possibility that Wizard PCs can be able to simply buy an Energy Reserve with a Gadget Limitation, with experience CP. Then gradually pay more CP to increase the size of the ER.

Other caster type might be able to do the same, depending on world metaphysics.

[Dustin]

Originally Posted by DAT

But if I keep it harsh, unluck rolls can have them loose their first character before they make it down the Well. And the fight at the botton will be viscious, so loosing a second character is possible. That would leave them on their third character ...

Having a primary character and a plan for a backup character, while I remove the option of dying coming down the chain would work.

Dying just coming down the chain, with very little player input or play, seems excessive. Reminds me of Traveller's problem with PCs dying during the character generation process, although even that seems kinder than starting play and being faced with a couple of 'save or die' rolls you weren't expecting.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by DAT

I was thinking about the chance of falling burning hay-pitch bails hitting them, or being hit by falling Redeemers.

There's grim, then there's "Don't bother putting thought into the character." For the former, we only really care about the guys that manage to reach the bottom of the shaft - a character that gets whacked with a burning bail or falling body is one that, as far as I'm concerned "died during character generation." If you prefer the latter, of course, feel free to have a random chance of each character getting killed during the descent.

Originally Posted by DAT

I was going back and forth over that. I was starting to think PCs going down unarmed was too harsh, so was thinking about the Redeemers being allowed to arm and armor up top (I was thinking about having one of the Brother Martyrs speak up for them, to gain the Brother some good will in the company). The Brother Martyrs and Trustee Redeemers will go down armed and armored.

Not a horrible idea, although a lot of the Redeemers will be desperate enough to try and fight back as soon as they're armed and armored up. As far as those of the Faith are concerned, this is likely an unnecessary risk. They may let them armor up before descending, however.

Originally Posted by DAT

I like the idea. I'm just not sure how to implement it with a force of ~120 Redeemers and Brother Martyrs against 3d6x5 White Tigers at the start. Or are the wounding and subtracting of Morale Points based only on the PC versus White Tiger combat?

PC's only - the NPC's are doing a bit of wounding and being wounded (and killed) during the fight, but it's the PC's actions that really matter for this. If you'd like, you could have the tigers' MP gradually decreasing at a constant rate during the fight to represent the NPC contribution.

Originally Posted by DAT

Two other variables here are the arrival rate of the Redeemers and the White Tigers.

I think you're making this more difficult than it needs to be. The important thing should really be what the PC's are doing. Once a PC lands, he'll have somewhere around 3d6 seconds to find a suitable weapon (either from the pile or from an already-defeated Redeemer) before he's set upon by a White Tiger. While the PC's will probably land at different times, it will be in their best interest to group up as soon as possible - assume a newly-landed PC manages to find the group 3d6 seconds after arming up (faster if he dispatches his foe).

For the tigers, I'd probably roll 1d3 per PC; this is how many tigers that PC faces. The first tiger shows up as above; if there are more than 1, the next shows up 2d6 seconds later, the final 2d6 seconds after that. Each time a tiger is wounded, it attempts to retreat; if successful, it will be replaced in 1d6 seconds by a fresh tiger. If a tiger is slain, it takes 2d6 seconds for it to be replaced. Once the PC reaches the rest of the group - or dies trying - his contribution of tigers joins those fighting the group (if one character has 3 tigers and another has only 1, the two together will face 4 - and these tigers won't favor any character over the other).

Originally Posted by DAT

Now I have to figure in the number of Brother Martyrs, Trustees, and normal Redeemers are wounded/killed over the course of each attack, and how many White Tigers are wounded/killed.

I missed the Trustees in my previous analysis; I'd say they follow a similar trend to the Martyrs, suffering incapacitation (and later death) at certain thresholds of total casualty values. Assume 5 of them are killed before the PC's get involved. After this, every 5% of casualties incapacitates one, who dies 10% later. That is, you have 10 Trustees to start. At 5%, you have 9 up, 1 down. At 10%, you have 8 up, 2 down. At 15%, you have 7 up, 2 down, 1 dead. 20%, 6-2-2; 25%, 5-2-3; 30%, 4-2-4; 35%, 3-2-5; 40%, 2-2-6; 45%, 1-2-7; 50%, 0-2-8; 55%, 0-1-9; 60%, 0-0-10. Assume that, once the tigers are driven off, the Martyrs prioritize the healing of the Trustees, and all the incapacitated ones are healed back up enough to survive (note this means you could actually ignore the Wounded in the above analysis, making it so the first Trustee dies at 15%, and another dies every 5% beyond that).


At least, the above is probably how I'd run this scenario - but I probably wouldn't be running it in the first place.

[GodBeastX]

Easiest way to make GURPS grim is take away magical healing or make it very rare. Let people rely on recovery, First Aid, Physician, Esoteric Medicine. That's something that makes combat scary for PCs is when they take 1 point of damage and know healing that is going to be a bitch!

[DAT]

Originally Posted by scc

DF's power items are Manastones (Magic, pg. 70). It takes 1 hour and 5 energy to put one energy into a Manastone, prerequisite of Powerstone, VH skill

I may still hold to the DF standard of Manastone and Powerstone enchantment is only known by the Enchanters Guild. So no Redeemer will likely know how.

The odd 1-5 point self charging Powerstone as treasure, is what I'm thinking of.
-Dan

[DAT]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

That's a very good idea. Just don't lock players onto their proposed concept for the secondary backup character. They should be allowed to change their minds.

Yep. They have a concept of X, then see the option of Y, let them go with Y.
-Dan

[DAT]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

Drop the training rules, and allow each character to buy the stuff that is "allowed" by his template, including Power-Ups traits, with experience CP. Problem solved.

Also note the possibility that Wizard PCs can be able to simply buy an Energy Reserve with a Gadget Limitation, with experience CP. Then gradually pay more CP to increase the size of the ER.

Other caster type might be able to do the same, depending on world metaphysics.

Yes, I think I'm going this way.
-Dan

[DAT]

Originally Posted by Dustin

Dying just coming down the chain, with very little player input or play, seems excessive. Reminds me of Traveller's problem with PCs dying during the character generation process, although even that seems kinder than starting play and being faced with a couple of 'save or die' rolls you weren't expecting.

They will be randomly targeted (9 or less to hit), and then have a Dodge roll. If that fails, they take damage, but still have a chance that the cord they tied will hold, or that they can regrab the chain. But if they fail three rolls in a row ... that Character may not have been ment to be.
-Dan

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by DAT

Yes, I think I'm going this way.

Non-caster types should perhaps also be able to channel some of their earned experience CPs into Gadgets, e.g. a Gadget sword, or a Gadget shield or mail shirt.

It's just a question of where you start demanding an UB for being able to do that. Maybe Magery-based magic can do it automatically (it's part of what you buy with Magery), but other caster types must have a 5 CP UB, and non-caster types must have a 20 CP UB, except Holy Warriors which are semi-casters anyway and so must only pay a 10 CP UB.

Or you can allow earned experience CP to be converted into Energy Points. GURPS Characters suggests two ratios for that, which I both find idiotic. One is idiotically high, the other idiotically low. I strongly suggest that if you go that route, you pick a ratio that is at some point in between those two.

[The Benj]

I'd be inclined to decide on a Wealth level equivalent, multiply that by the number of PCs, then buy that total value worth of assorted (but not random) stuff and put it in a pile for the PCs to squabble over.

For "morale" purposes, I'd use a Reaction roll for the white tigers. Reroll when extra mods would get added: lighting up torches, wounding them, killing them, surrounding them/breaking free of being surrounded, etc. Once the roll's good enough, the survivors flee.
How well you do in this (and future all-out, everyone's-involved battles) modifies your relations with any NPCs, plus your access to replacement characters. If you keep it together, work in an orderly fashion and keep the NPCs alive, you have a smörgåsbord of choices for a replacement character. If not, your choices are more limited.

PS. Enslaving sapient beings is an Evil act. It's not relevant to a GURPS game, but the forces of Light are Lawful Evil, not Good.