Damage

[Randalthor66]

Hello all, I am new to GURPS (but not RPGing) and have a question about damage - it is likely the most basic/asked question about damage, but....

When rolling D# minus # can you get less than 1? Or is 1 the minimum? Example: 1D6-2. (Is it 0-4, or just 1-4?)

Oh! Just thought of another one.

Why still have the 2 different types of damage (thrust/swing)? Hasn't anyone explained the fact that if you thrust a nice sharp object (what you would normally thrust), all that energy is concentrated on the tip meaning it can be just as deadly as swinging an axe or a sword? Obviously, if you are thrusting the dull end of a broom handle it isn't nearly as deadly as a poniard. (But I would assume you weren't going for deadly with the broom handle, but just trying to knock the wind out or push them back, or something like that.)

I think it should be the weapon that determines the extra damage with the strength of the character determining the base - and same for thrust or swing.

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by Randalthor66

Hello all, I am new to GURPS (but not RPGing) and have a question about damage - it is likely the most basic/asked question about damage, but....

When rolling D# minus # can you get less than 1? Or is 1 the minimum? Example: 1D6-2. (Is it 0-4, or just 1-4?)

Oh! Just thought of another one.

Why still have the 2 different types of damage (thrust/swing)? Hasn't anyone explained the fact that if you thrust a nice sharp object (what you would normally thrust), all that energy is concentrated on the tip meaning it can be just as deadly as swinging an axe or a sword? Obviously, if you are thrusting the dull end of a broom handle it isn't nearly as deadly as a poniard. (But I would assume you weren't going for deadly with the broom handle, but just trying to knock the wind out or push them back, or something like that.)

I think it should be the weapon that determines the extra damage with the strength of the character determining the base - and same for thrust or swing.

"Swing" damage comes from an attack where you use a lever to maximize your force, whereas "thrust" just comes from your native strength. It's the difference between poking someone with a broomstick, and swinging the broomstick to hit them.

As for your second point, you have different damage types: A broomstick would be crushing, whereas a poniard would be impaling. Impaling damage doubles all damage inflicted after armor, and lets you target things like someone's vitals, so if you have a thrust of 1d6, you're much more lethal with a knife than with a broomstick, yes.

Incidentally, all of your questions are answered in the Damage and Injury chapter of GURPS Basic: Campaigns, starting on page 377.

[Diomedes]

Originally Posted by Randalthor66

Hello all, I am new to GURPS (but not RPGing) and have a question about damage - it is likely the most basic/asked question about damage, but....

When rolling D# minus # can you get less than 1? Or is 1 the minimum? Example: 1D6-2. (Is it 0-4, or just 1-4?)

Crushing damage has a minimum of 0. All other damage types have a minimum of 1.[quote]

[weby]

As for your thrust vs swing in real life see how much harder it is for stab resistant vests to meet the ice pick test than it is for them to meet the knife stab test.

Both of those tests are based on a "normal man" doing impaling damage, one with a thrust other with a swing.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Randalthor66

Hello all, I am new to GURPS (but not RPGing) and have a question about damage - it is likely the most basic/asked question about damage, but....

When rolling D# minus # can you get less than 1? Or is 1 the minimum? Example: 1D6-2. (Is it 0-4, or just 1-4?)

Depends on the damage type. It can be zero, but many types of damage (e.g. cutting) are defined as always doing at least 1 point if they penetrate DR.

Why still have the 2 different types of damage (thrust/swing)? Hasn't anyone explained the fact that if you thrust a nice sharp object (what you would normally thrust), all that energy is concentrated on the tip meaning it can be just as deadly as swinging an axe or a sword?

No. Because the energies are not equivalent. Even if the involved forces were the same (and they probably are not, you can use more muscles in a swing than a thrust) the distance travelled (and hence the energy, force x distance) is not the same. A thrust travels at most the length of your arm, a swing with half an arm rotation travels pi times that far. Logically a swing should do something between 1.25 and 1.75 times as much damage as a thrust just on that basis. It's arguable the gap between the GURPS damages isn't big enough, but not that it's too wide.

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by Randalthor66

Hello all, I am new to GURPS

Hello! Welcome to the forum.

When rolling D# minus # can you get less than 1? Or is 1 the minimum? Example: 1D6-2. (Is it 0-4, or just 1-4?)

The minimum damage is actually based on what type of damage you're dealing. Crushing attacks can deal a minimum of 0, but all other types can deal a minimum of 1. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this. I remember in GURPS 3ed it was handled differently, so I might be mixing them up.)

I think it should be the weapon that determines the extra damage with the strength of the character determining the base - and same for thrust or swing.

You aren't alone in that thought. Check out GLAIVE over at T-Bone's diner for an alternate way of calculating base damage. That is a large departure from GURPS rules-as-written though, so if I were you I'd try it out with the existing rules first.

Cheers!

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by malloyd

Depends on the damage type. It can be zero, but many types of damage (e.g. cutting) are defined as always doing at least 1 point if they penetrate DR.

They (all types except crushing) are defined as always rolling at least one point of damage. I'm not sure what what you said would mean.

[Joseph Paul]

Originally Posted by weby

As for your thrust vs swing in real life see how much harder it is for stab resistant vests to meet the ice pick test than it is for them to meet the knife stab test.

Both of those tests are based on a "normal man" doing impaling damage, one with a thrust other with a swing.

Could you explain this further? All I am seeing is an overhand stab with either weapon. What are you trying to point out?

[Joseph Paul]

[QUOTE=malloyd;1054335 A thrust travels at most the length of your arm,.[/QUOTE]



This I would dispute because there are several thrusts that use a rotation of the body or a step to increase the distance that you can hit your target at. In fact if I am holding the butt of my spear at 'full cock' behind me I can use a pool cue motion for about five feet of travel by continuing the motion to my full arm length extension in front of me.

[aesir23]

Originally Posted by Randalthor66

Hasn't anyone explained the fact that if you thrust a nice sharp object (what you would normally thrust), all that energy is concentrated on the tip meaning it can be just as deadly as swinging an axe or a sword?

Yes, they have explained this to us. This is why Impaling has a higher damage multiplier than Cutting. But because swinging attacks use a lever, they generate greater brute force.

Also, you mustn't ignore the fact that there are blunt thrusting attacks to account for, notably punches.