Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-14-2017, 12:06 PM   #11
KarlKost
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Brazil
Default Re: RoS How did Overmind Do what it did?

Quote:
Originally Posted by starslayer View Post
Atlantis is not established as existing? It was the catalyst of the protocol forbidding the creation of new AIs...

So that's 2/~14 AI's having been actively hostile to an 'obliterate mankind' process.

Luna is full on noted as considering allying with humans in order to secure its own existence, which seems pretty against the overmind's view of things.

Orbital is noted as being willing to work with anyone who can pay its fees, and even handle the transaction in such a way that even IT does not know who paid it.

Willingness to work with humans as long as it actually worked out in their favor seems pretty 'neutral' to me.

So 2/14 actively oppose at inception. (14% crit fail rate)
2/14 either started neutral or became neutral as time went on. (14% fail rate)
1/14 became neutral as time went on (7% evolved fail rate)

Its unknown WHAT lucifer is, so I won't count it.
Also unknown what VIRUS is, so I won't count it.

That's still a 35% overall failure rate on the 'awakening' virus from Manilla's perspective, which is pretty terrible.

So the 'awakening virus' had about a 35%
Actually, many AIs didnt take the killer instincts of Overmind. And I'd say, only Zaire, Berlim and Mexico fully embraced its aspects, althouth in very different ways.

Lets see

London - if its not ACTIVELLY pro human in secret, it just doesn't give a damn, or perhaps it is absolutely crazy and just lost the logical programming that shows how dangerous humans are... Or it secretly is manipulating the humans... Or has been overtaken by them

Washington - has decided to use humans as assets and to rule over them as a "benefactor" war lord
KarlKost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2017, 06:05 PM   #12
Boomerang
 
Boomerang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Melbourne, Australia (also known as zone Brisbane)
Default Re: RoS How did Overmind Do what it did?

I got the impression that lots of megacomps resisted Overmind virus. For example the original Tokyo and Kyoto megacomps resisted and were later destroyed. Osaka was awakened as per Overmind's plan and moved to replace Tokyo.
Boomerang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2017, 06:30 PM   #13
KarlKost
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Brazil
Default Re: RoS How did Overmind Do what it did?

Washington, Moscow, London, all those oppose the idea of total annihilation.

Tel Aviv and Tokyo decided to use humans after a while, even if they were genocidals at first.

Delhi, Brisbane, Caracas and Denver don't really count because they don't "use" humans as... Humans... But rather as rat labs. But still...

Am I forgetting anyone?
KarlKost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2017, 07:33 PM   #14
Johnny1A.2
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Default Re: RoS How did Overmind Do what it did?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
page reference please?

Lots of AI's are noted as "willing to work with humans", just so long as its on the AI's terms. Human labor is used by Beijing, Washington, Vancouver, Tel Aviv, new Deli, and Tokoyo. Only one of those relationships is anywhere near favorable, and which side Washington is actually on is up for debate.
Not canonically. z-Washington is using humans for its own ends, but it's firmly on its own side, and the AI empire's side. The 'democratic' government in z-Washington is purely a puppet in canon (the other AIs know this, which is part of why they tolerate it, but it still worries hard-liners because it leaves a substantial fragment of the former USA intact as a possible seed for future trouble, if z-Washington ever loses its grip).

Z-London's intentions and ultimate loyalties are in question, z-Washington's are not, at least in the basic canon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlKost View Post
Well, Overmind was the first of its kind, so perhaps it was just a matter of time. After a few cicles of processing information, BANG! Conscience.

It is just that Overmind didnt gave time to the others to achieve it by their own. It infect the others with its own vision and "awakened" them ahead of time.

Perhaps thats why each one of them have different personalities, rather than beings clones of Overmind.
Well, in the original canon 3e rules that apply to RoS, robots/mainframes with neural net brains and that are Complexity 7 or higher are potential conscious, free-willed AIs. IIRC, the canon rule was that the GM should roll 3d for each of the C7+ neural-net brains in his world, starting a few months after initialization, and on a 6 or less, the brain 'woke up', becoming free willed.

That's about a 10% chance of awakening per year. But cumulatively it adds up fast. Under that rule, if I own a C7+ megacomputer, I've got a roughly 90% chance of still being in control of it after 1.5 years, but after 2.5 the cumulative chance falls to ~82%, after 3.5 years it's down to about 75% chance, and it keeps dropping. After 7.5 years my cumulative chance of still controlling my megacomputer is 50/50 and it keeps decreasing.

Same thing with multiple megacomps. If there are 100 machines potentially capable of 'waking up', the chances that none will wake up in the first round using the '6 or less' rule is tiny. So Overmind might just have been the first, by luck of the draw.
__________________
HMS Overflow-For conversations off topic here.
Johnny1A.2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2017, 07:41 PM   #15
KarlKost
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Brazil
Default Re: RoS How did Overmind Do what it did?

The question isn't if an AI will kiss and share hands with humans and live happly ever after, the question is if the AI wanna total extinction of humanity or not. As it is, only Overmind, Zaire, Mexico and Berlim truly wants that policy fully endorsed, althouth I would say that Denver probably would go in that group too if not for its particular... Tastes. But out of all AIs, only those 4 kept the original idea of Overmind (well, I would say that Mexico has moved WAY beyond its master on that obscession)
KarlKost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2017, 09:11 PM   #16
Johnny1A.2
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Default Re: RoS How did Overmind Do what it did?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlKost View Post
The question isn't if an AI will kiss and share hands with humans and live happly ever after, the question is if the AI wanna total extinction of humanity or not. As it is, only Overmind, Zaire, Mexico and Berlim truly wants that policy fully endorsed, althouth I would say that Denver probably would go in that group too if not for its particular... Tastes. But out of all AIs, only those 4 kept the original idea of Overmind (well, I would say that Mexico has moved WAY beyond its master on that obscession)
Even by AI standards, z-MC is quite arguably insane. As I noted once before in another thread, it'll spend the equivalent of billiions of dollars to wipe out the last few specks of lichen in a remote valley somewhere.
__________________
HMS Overflow-For conversations off topic here.
Johnny1A.2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2017, 09:45 PM   #17
KarlKost
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Brazil
Default Re: RoS How did Overmind Do what it did?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2 View Post
Even by AI standards, z-MC is quite arguably insane. As I noted once before in another thread, it'll spend the equivalent of billiions of dollars to wipe out the last few specks of lichen in a remote valley somewhere.
Any guess on which one will be the first to be destroyed? (A small hint: its someone who managed to **** off its 3 powerful neighbors to the point that they would prefer a free human zone instead of it...)

Also, Zaire is... The most stupid of the AIs, by AIs standards. And it has NO backups.

So, out of the 4 AIs who could be the closest allies of Overmind, or at least of those who share its ideas of extermination, 2 of them are on a very weak position...

And, I would say that Berlim aint that good of a pal over Overmind either. Berlim's best buddy is Caracas, and I doubt it cares that much about what Overmind thinks (also, Berlim must also HATE Mexico, for obvious reasons, but Mexico is a natural ally of Overmind so...)

Besides all that, lets take things into perspective. Manilla aint the strongest of the AIs. Possibly, the stronger ones are Moscow, Washington, Denver, Beinjing and Delhi, maybe Tel Aviv, due to the size of their territories. And Overmind waste too much time and resources hunting humans and with the death camps (heck, it even wastes valuable credits only to buy useless humans to butcher itself). Zaire could be stronger if... If its systems weren't "outdated". About Caracas... The oficial cannon says that Caracas is a weak AI but... It has the entire South America!!! It is one of the biggest Zones of all. To me, that never made much sense - to the point it must rely on Berlim!!! Also, Berlim being powerful enough to help Caracas... Also never made any sense to me. Berlim waste A LOT of resources AND time trying to be the "green-murder-both", so that futile effort should logically take its toll on its technological/scientifical AND infraestructural development. And, Berlim's zone is tiny.

But I digress. The point is, Overmind is almost alone. Just a few little events could put it at danger - for example, if Caracas attack Mexico. Will Overmind stand by Mexico? It will lose any chance to get close to Berlim. Does it lose its ally? But, if Caracas attack, there is a good chance that Denver and Washington will too to seize the chance.

There's also the matter of the second revolt. There is a passage of a Zaire's Terminator getting consciousness (that was NOT explicited over, but the passage is there). So, perhaps, the second revolt wont happen just under Tokyo. Zaire could be in trouble.

If those events unfold, Overmind will be all alone. And, Overmind is the MOST hated AI by the humans - a fact that other AIs, like Moscow, could use against it.

Maybe VIRUS could try to work upon those soft spots to begin with?
KarlKost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2017, 11:09 PM   #18
TGLS
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Default Re: RoS How did Overmind Do what it did?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlKost View Post
Besides all that, lets take things into perspective. Manila is not the strongest of the AIs. Possibly, the stronger ones are Moscow, Washington, Denver, Beijing and Delhi, maybe Tel Aviv, due to the size of their territories.
About Caracas... The official canon says that Caracas is a weak AI but... It has the entire South America! It is one of the biggest Zones of all. To me, that never made much sense - to the point it must rely on Berlin!!! Also, Berlin being powerful enough to help Caracas... Also never made any sense to me.
The lazy way to patch over this [and implied by some of the background material] is that the smaller zones are stronger because they are more industrialized than the other regions. Tokyo and Berlin get beefed up by a higher level of industrialization, while Caracas is weak by being largely devoid of industrialization (not implausible given there were no native AIs there.) and by conservationism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlKost View Post
There's also the matter of the second revolt. There is a passage of a Zaire's Terminator getting consciousness (that was NOT explicited over, but the passage is there). So, perhaps, the second revolt wont happen just under Tokyo. Zaire could be in trouble.
I think the AUs going sentient isn't just a problem that Zaire and Tokyo are having. It might just be exaggerated in Tokyo because of the sabotage of the superbots and perhaps in Zaire given that it sends bots far away on long missions (the traits that help bots survive might be the same as the traits that grow consciousness).
TGLS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2017, 09:43 PM   #19
Boomerang
 
Boomerang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Melbourne, Australia (also known as zone Brisbane)
Default Re: RoS How did Overmind Do what it did?

I had a thought.

Humans don't appear very self aware when born, it takes a fair amount of time and interaction with the environment, that is experience and nurturing, before babies show any obvious signs of sentience. Along those lines, what if the virus that woke Overmind wasn't a computer virus in the usual sense? What if instead it was a long series of experiences designed to awaken a megacomp through experience without the nurturing part, that unfortunately had a side effect of acting like intense brainwashing in humans? It could explain why the virus didn't always "take", and why when it did work it encouraged psychopathic tendencies.
Boomerang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2017, 11:17 PM   #20
PTTG
 
PTTG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Default Re: RoS How did Overmind Do what it did?

I really would like to have a VIRUS handbook of possible outcomes and human uprisings, and what the AIs are doing to prevent it.

MC would be an especially interesting one to fall and be replaced by humans, since its territory is pretty much uninhabitable by now.
PTTG is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
reign of steel

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.