Run Time Error 430 After Update - Page 5

HypnoMorph · 04-01-2010, 03:24 PM

I have been doing some research this morning on the problem. I am still working on it which may lead to some more "stream of consciousness" crap. Sorry about that.

The more references I check, the more Angel Darkover's analysis appears true. Different sources use various terms, versioning is the term I am used to using, but they pretty much mean the same. Microsoft Database Access Components (MDAC) and Visual Basic runtime libraries are common enough causes that updating these components may help. You can get them www.microsoft.com/downloads.

MDAC 2.8
Visual Basic 6.0 SP 5 Runtime Package

There are other possibilities, like the C/C++ runtimes, but these two were the main ones I found being discussed. The VB runtime (MSVBVM60.DLL) is referenced by the Character Assistant. I can't say for sure that MDAC is also being used, but I think it likely.

Outright registry corruption is regarded as a common cause. I have encountered several recommendations to run a registry "cleaner." Here they generally mean a program that will scan for errors and hopefully correct it. To me a cleaner does nothing more than compact and remove dead entries, like the old manual extract and rebuild of the registry from DOS. Here they mean the commonly pushed tools which are somewhat controversial depending on who you talk to about it. Be sure to create a new restore point, create a separate registry backup, and consider a full backup before using an unproven product of this nature.

I mentioned how we may want to delete any of these files which may be locally installed, leaving them in the system32 or syswow64 directories. You might go ahead and try making sure all those files are copied into the install directory. I do not know enough about the registration process and COM functionality to say whether this will work. But the application may find them locally and not reference those versions in the system directories, hopefully insulating the Character Builder from these versioning problems. I need more information on this. My current understanding is this should not work as path information is included with registration.

If the GURPS program installed a version expecting a dll, and something else installed (i.e. updated) a version expecting an exe, like the situation described in the Microsoft article, the missing file error may be the Character Assistant looking for the version it expects but can no longer find. Pure speculation until we can learn more.

More shortly...

HypnoMorph · 04-01-2010, 03:53 PM

Mr. Draco:

A lot could be gained if we can get in contact with other people experiencing this problem, Unfortunately, you and I are the only concrete examples I have available right now, and the similarities as well as the differences between our issues are not conclusive.

You might want to go ahead and update MDAC and the VB runtime. And see if this helps. If that does not work you might consider running a registry repair utility. Beyond my previous warnings and recommendation for an in depth backup of your registry, I can not really advise for or against their use at this point. Please post any results you may get.

At this point I need to know how you wish to proceed. What are your plans regarding the problem you are experiencing? How much effort do you want to put into trying to fix this problem? I will try to help you, as best I can, which may not be saying much. My inability to directly work on your system makes it very difficult for me to diagnose further. As I said earlier, I have been out of the field for quite a while now. My skill in directing others blindly, to make them into extensions of my own hands and eyes, is greatly reduced. A lot of trial and error would be necessary without any assurance of success unless we find a more knowledgeable person to help out. Sorry, I was only a so-so tech even when I was on top of my game.

If you feel comfortable doing so, you might send me a copy of pertinent parts of your registry, namely HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT which refers to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE (a.k.a. HKLM) \SOFTWARE\Classes and HKEY_CURRENT_USER (HKCU) \SOFTWARE\Classes. Or just send the whole thing if you are not too concerned about my looking at them. These should be copies made while the problem exists, and a separate copy when working fine. I lack the proper tools process these handily, so no promises and give me lots of time. By looking at these entries I hope to find out which files and versions are in conflict.

I used to have tools to help me with all this, but that was 10 years ago. Would they even work on current systems? Doesn't matter because I no longer have them anyways. This is a good point to ask if anyone can recommend a good set of diagnostic tools for the modern system, I would greatly appreciate any information you have. Until then I have to do it by hand, and hope I can remember how.

How do you wish to proceed? Your call.

Mr_Draco · 04-01-2010, 07:54 PM

I don't think it's a registry issue. If you'll read the first page I had this issue on a brand new hard drive with Vista 32 bit just installed minutes before and the only 2 programs that was installed was GCA and Bit Defender (why I didn't see this connection before that I have no clue and I'm sorry for that :(). I don't know that much about the technical stuff of computers so it may be possible to have a corrupt registry that soon.

I'm up for getting down to the bottom of it but if you need anything too technical I will need steps. Also I am a store manager for a retail chain so it may take me a couple days to back with you with the stuff.

I'm going to try to update the 2 programs above first and get back to you but it will be Saturday at the earliest (hopefully) that I can do it. We have some issues at the store that got to be taken care of and I'm trying to do it tomorrow but if not it will be Monday before I will be able to mess with this.

HypnoMorph · 04-02-2010, 09:13 AM

Actually the registry is involved one way or another since that is where critical COM related information is stored. Corruption probably is not the cause, but there is most likely incorrect or confused registry entries for at least one of these libraries. Due to versioning issue, and it does appear that is what we are dealing with as Angel Darkover suggested, you might even have more than one CLSID registered.

Take whatever time you need to take care of whatever needs to be taken care of. As I have indicated previously, my situation (disability) causes many delays on my end also. And those delays can be quite long, even more than a week. I will certainly try not delay for that amount of time, but you should be aware of my limitations.

I am also going to need time to research the issue further, look for suitable tools to make it easier on both of us, and come up with a game plan. I will do my best to walk you through any process you unfamiliar or uncomfortable with. Using someone else as your hands and eyes is a difficult skill of which I am out of practice, I am afraid I am going to have to ask you to have patience with me!

It is possible for me to access your computer across the Internet and use it as if I was sitting right there. Seoftware is available for us to use without charge, unless that has changed. I haven't used software like that for many years. I am sure we can figure it out though.

We will just have to be patient with each other and keep our eyes and ears open for any additional help or advice which may come our way.

Mr_Draco · 04-04-2010, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HypnoMorph

The more references I check, the more Angel Darkover's analysis appears true. Different sources use various terms, versioning is the term I am used to using, but they pretty much mean the same. Microsoft Database Access Components (MDAC) and Visual Basic runtime libraries are common enough causes that updating these components may help. You can get them www.microsoft.com/downloads.

MDAC 2.8
Visual Basic 6.0 SP 5 Runtime Package

I finally got around to going here and downloading. Those two are not compatible with Vista or Windows 7.

HypnoMorph · 04-05-2010, 09:59 AM

Yep, your right. This is an example of me being behind. It has been nearly a Decade, I never provided support for Vista or Windows 7.

Visual Basic 6 will still work in Vista/Win7, but requires an updated package. The current package is Service Pack 6. MSVBVM60.DLL is listed as a dependency, so the Visual Basic 6 run time does appear to be used by this program.

I will have to search for the correct runtime files when I have time. Or if anyone else has time, search www.microsoft.com/downloads.

Vista does use MDAC (starting at 2.8), althoug it is now just called DAC, it just turns out that it is part of the operating system now. Here is a FAQ I found about it: MDAC/DAC FAQ

While the MDAC component checker will - if running the newer versions - give us information on the currently installed files, it cannot do anything to fix it since it is part of the operating system. We might start by running the system file check utility (SFC). Information on this tool can be found at Article ID: 929833. I found a more user friendly tutorial at Tech-Recipes. It can be found here: Run System File Checker

Take note of the warning that you require an actual Vista install disc, not just a restoration cd. If you need to repair files and you do not have one, borrow one. Otherwise you end up having to run the resore wiping out everything you have up to now.

Please post the results.

Thank you!

Miles
HyponMorph

Mr_Draco · 04-05-2010, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.0.6000]
Copyright (c) 2006 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Windows\system32>sfc /scannow

Beginning system scan. This process will take some time.

Beginning verification phase of system scan.
Verification 100% complete.Windows Resource Protection found corrupt files but was unable to fix some of them.

That's all it said and I was never asked to insert the Vista DVD.

Armin · 04-05-2010, 05:57 PM

I've missed a bunch of posts here, sorry.

For the record, GCA doesn't use anything that relies on MDAC. It does, of course, use the VB6 runtime (which is MSVBVM60.DLL) and some related files. GCA is currently developed using VB6 SP6.

Also, while GCA does dump the stuff from the logging window into debug.run as it's being logged*, there's not really anything there that will help with such issues, and there's no enhanced debugging/logging feature.

Basically, from what I've seen here, the problem for some folks is the file conflict with BitDefender. I have no idea how that could be addressed, beyond GCA moving to something that doesn't use the same file, or not using BitDefender. Those things are notoriously difficult to find and fix, if it's even possible.

Armin

* on Win7/Vista that's in Users\[Your User Name]\AppData\Roaming\Steve Jackson Games\GURPS Character Assistant 4\, on other OSes, it's in the corresponding location for AppData.

HypnoMorph · 04-12-2010, 06:52 PM

Sorry for the delay.

If it did not ask for the CD/DVD, then you most likely have all the install files located on your drive already. That is how I used to setup all PC's back then, it appears to be standard now.

SFC is supposed to create a log file. Check C:\WINDOWS\LOGS\CBS\CBS.LOG, that is the last place I remember it being placed by default. That may have changed, of course, so please let me know. If not there, I will have to check online for the current path. If it is there, please post what was fixed and what was not.

I found the Service Pack 6 runtime files at Microsoft Downloads. I don't believe there is a 64 bit version, but it should work on 64 bit systems by updating the 32 bit subsystem. I encountered no errors on my system in any case.

As for MDAC, I don't know. MDAC for example replaced the jet engine functions internally in some programming packages. With it being part of the operating system, it could be linked in unexpected ways like the automation libraries. I learned all about them (automation library's) during Y2K, they linked into just about everything! And Microsoft would not reveal details without purchasing a special license that cost a fortune and included several restrictions. I had to seek some creative ways to test them for Y2K problems. This actually led to me getting hired by Microsoft.

Sorry to get distracted reminiscing there, it was a good time for me.

HypnoMorph · 04-12-2010, 07:03 PM

Mr. Draco:

I found a tutorial at Windows Vista Forums (http://www.vistax64.com/) that may be of help.

The tutorial includes information about reading the CBS log and what can be done with files that could not be repaired.

The tutorial is found here: Repair and Verify the Integrity of Vista System Files.

The tutorial also references Microsoft Article ID: 929833

04-01-2010, 03:24 PM	#41
HypnoMorph Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Currently in Kansas	Re: Run Time Error 430 After Update I have been doing some research this morning on the problem. I am still working on it which may lead to some more "stream of consciousness" crap. Sorry about that. The more references I check, the more Angel Darkover's analysis appears true. Different sources use various terms, versioning is the term I am used to using, but they pretty much mean the same. Microsoft Database Access Components (MDAC) and Visual Basic runtime libraries are common enough causes that updating these components may help. You can get them www.microsoft.com/downloads. MDAC 2.8 Visual Basic 6.0 SP 5 Runtime Package There are other possibilities, like the C/C++ runtimes, but these two were the main ones I found being discussed. The VB runtime (MSVBVM60.DLL) is referenced by the Character Assistant. I can't say for sure that MDAC is also being used, but I think it likely. Outright registry corruption is regarded as a common cause. I have encountered several recommendations to run a registry "cleaner." Here they generally mean a program that will scan for errors and hopefully correct it. To me a cleaner does nothing more than compact and remove dead entries, like the old manual extract and rebuild of the registry from DOS. Here they mean the commonly pushed tools which are somewhat controversial depending on who you talk to about it. Be sure to create a new restore point, create a separate registry backup, and consider a full backup before using an unproven product of this nature. I mentioned how we may want to delete any of these files which may be locally installed, leaving them in the system32 or syswow64 directories. You might go ahead and try making sure all those files are copied into the install directory. I do not know enough about the registration process and COM functionality to say whether this will work. But the application may find them locally and not reference those versions in the system directories, hopefully insulating the Character Builder from these versioning problems. I need more information on this. My current understanding is this should not work as path information is included with registration. If the GURPS program installed a version expecting a dll, and something else installed (i.e. updated) a version expecting an exe, like the situation described in the Microsoft article, the missing file error may be the Character Assistant looking for the version it expects but can no longer find. Pure speculation until we can learn more. More shortly...

04-01-2010, 03:53 PM	#42
HypnoMorph Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Currently in Kansas	Re: Run Time Error 430 After Update Mr. Draco: A lot could be gained if we can get in contact with other people experiencing this problem, Unfortunately, you and I are the only concrete examples I have available right now, and the similarities as well as the differences between our issues are not conclusive. You might want to go ahead and update MDAC and the VB runtime. And see if this helps. If that does not work you might consider running a registry repair utility. Beyond my previous warnings and recommendation for an in depth backup of your registry, I can not really advise for or against their use at this point. Please post any results you may get. At this point I need to know how you wish to proceed. What are your plans regarding the problem you are experiencing? How much effort do you want to put into trying to fix this problem? I will try to help you, as best I can, which may not be saying much. My inability to directly work on your system makes it very difficult for me to diagnose further. As I said earlier, I have been out of the field for quite a while now. My skill in directing others blindly, to make them into extensions of my own hands and eyes, is greatly reduced. A lot of trial and error would be necessary without any assurance of success unless we find a more knowledgeable person to help out. Sorry, I was only a so-so tech even when I was on top of my game. If you feel comfortable doing so, you might send me a copy of pertinent parts of your registry, namely HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT which refers to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE (a.k.a. HKLM) \SOFTWARE\Classes and HKEY_CURRENT_USER (HKCU) \SOFTWARE\Classes. Or just send the whole thing if you are not too concerned about my looking at them. These should be copies made while the problem exists, and a separate copy when working fine. I lack the proper tools process these handily, so no promises and give me lots of time. By looking at these entries I hope to find out which files and versions are in conflict. I used to have tools to help me with all this, but that was 10 years ago. Would they even work on current systems? Doesn't matter because I no longer have them anyways. This is a good point to ask if anyone can recommend a good set of diagnostic tools for the modern system, I would greatly appreciate any information you have. Until then I have to do it by hand, and hope I can remember how. How do you wish to proceed? Your call.

04-01-2010, 07:54 PM	#43
Mr_Draco Join Date: Feb 2010	Re: Run Time Error 430 After Update I don't think it's a registry issue. If you'll read the first page I had this issue on a brand new hard drive with Vista 32 bit just installed minutes before and the only 2 programs that was installed was GCA and Bit Defender (why I didn't see this connection before that I have no clue and I'm sorry for that :(). I don't know that much about the technical stuff of computers so it may be possible to have a corrupt registry that soon. I'm up for getting down to the bottom of it but if you need anything too technical I will need steps. Also I am a store manager for a retail chain so it may take me a couple days to back with you with the stuff. I'm going to try to update the 2 programs above first and get back to you but it will be Saturday at the earliest (hopefully) that I can do it. We have some issues at the store that got to be taken care of and I'm trying to do it tomorrow but if not it will be Monday before I will be able to mess with this.

04-02-2010, 09:13 AM	#44
HypnoMorph Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Currently in Kansas	Re: Run Time Error 430 After Update Actually the registry is involved one way or another since that is where critical COM related information is stored. Corruption probably is not the cause, but there is most likely incorrect or confused registry entries for at least one of these libraries. Due to versioning issue, and it does appear that is what we are dealing with as Angel Darkover suggested, you might even have more than one CLSID registered. Take whatever time you need to take care of whatever needs to be taken care of. As I have indicated previously, my situation (disability) causes many delays on my end also. And those delays can be quite long, even more than a week. I will certainly try not delay for that amount of time, but you should be aware of my limitations. I am also going to need time to research the issue further, look for suitable tools to make it easier on both of us, and come up with a game plan. I will do my best to walk you through any process you unfamiliar or uncomfortable with. Using someone else as your hands and eyes is a difficult skill of which I am out of practice, I am afraid I am going to have to ask you to have patience with me! It is possible for me to access your computer across the Internet and use it as if I was sitting right there. Seoftware is available for us to use without charge, unless that has changed. I haven't used software like that for many years. I am sure we can figure it out though. We will just have to be patient with each other and keep our eyes and ears open for any additional help or advice which may come our way.

04-05-2010, 09:59 AM	#46
HypnoMorph Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Currently in Kansas	Re: Run Time Error 430 After Update Yep, your right. This is an example of me being behind. It has been nearly a Decade, I never provided support for Vista or Windows 7. Visual Basic 6 will still work in Vista/Win7, but requires an updated package. The current package is Service Pack 6. MSVBVM60.DLL is listed as a dependency, so the Visual Basic 6 run time does appear to be used by this program. I will have to search for the correct runtime files when I have time. Or if anyone else has time, search www.microsoft.com/downloads. Vista does use MDAC (starting at 2.8), althoug it is now just called DAC, it just turns out that it is part of the operating system now. Here is a FAQ I found about it: MDAC/DAC FAQ While the MDAC component checker will - if running the newer versions - give us information on the currently installed files, it cannot do anything to fix it since it is part of the operating system. We might start by running the system file check utility (SFC). Information on this tool can be found at Article ID: 929833. I found a more user friendly tutorial at Tech-Recipes. It can be found here: Run System File Checker Take note of the warning that you require an actual Vista install disc, not just a restoration cd. If you need to repair files and you do not have one, borrow one. Otherwise you end up having to run the resore wiping out everything you have up to now. Please post the results. Thank you! Miles HyponMorph Last edited by HypnoMorph; 04-05-2010 at 10:29 AM.

04-05-2010, 05:57 PM	#48
Armin GCA Prime Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Portland, OR	Re: Run Time Error 430 After Update I've missed a bunch of posts here, sorry. For the record, GCA doesn't use anything that relies on MDAC. It does, of course, use the VB6 runtime (which is MSVBVM60.DLL) and some related files. GCA is currently developed using VB6 SP6. Also, while GCA does dump the stuff from the logging window into debug.run as it's being logged, there's not really anything there that will help with such issues, and there's no enhanced debugging/logging feature. Basically, from what I've seen here, the problem for some folks is the file conflict with BitDefender. I have no idea how that could be addressed, beyond GCA moving to something that doesn't use the same file, or not using BitDefender. Those things are notoriously difficult to find and fix, if it's even possible. Armin on Win7/Vista that's in Users\[Your User Name]\AppData\Roaming\Steve Jackson Games\GURPS Character Assistant 4\, on other OSes, it's in the corresponding location for AppData. __________________ Armin D. Sykes \| Visit my GCA5 blog for updates and previews. \| Get GURPS Character Assistant 5 now at Warehouse 23.

04-12-2010, 06:52 PM	#49
HypnoMorph Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Currently in Kansas	Re: Run Time Error 430 After Update Sorry for the delay. If it did not ask for the CD/DVD, then you most likely have all the install files located on your drive already. That is how I used to setup all PC's back then, it appears to be standard now. SFC is supposed to create a log file. Check C:\WINDOWS\LOGS\CBS\CBS.LOG, that is the last place I remember it being placed by default. That may have changed, of course, so please let me know. If not there, I will have to check online for the current path. If it is there, please post what was fixed and what was not. I found the Service Pack 6 runtime files at Microsoft Downloads. I don't believe there is a 64 bit version, but it should work on 64 bit systems by updating the 32 bit subsystem. I encountered no errors on my system in any case. As for MDAC, I don't know. MDAC for example replaced the jet engine functions internally in some programming packages. With it being part of the operating system, it could be linked in unexpected ways like the automation libraries. I learned all about them (automation library's) during Y2K, they linked into just about everything! And Microsoft would not reveal details without purchasing a special license that cost a fortune and included several restrictions. I had to seek some creative ways to test them for Y2K problems. This actually led to me getting hired by Microsoft. Sorry to get distracted reminiscing there, it was a good time for me.

04-12-2010, 07:03 PM	#50
HypnoMorph Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Currently in Kansas	Re: Run Time Error 430 After Update Mr. Draco: I found a tutorial at Windows Vista Forums (http://www.vistax64.com/) that may be of help. The tutorial includes information about reading the CBS log and what can be done with files that could not be repaired. The tutorial is found here: *Repair and Verify the Integrity of Vista System Files.* The tutorial also references Microsoft Article ID: 929833