Run Time Error 430 After Update - Page 4

HypnoMorph · 03-31-2010, 02:29 PM

Draco:

Did Bitdefender quarantine one of these files?

"Now I think my problem was the two programs was sharing a file and with Bit Defender already running and using that file, the computer was not allowing GCA to access and use the file thus causing the error but I'm not sure."

If there is a problem as you theorized, you might try to take ownership of the files in question. That has been the only way I have resolved some rights related issues in the past.

Mr_Draco · 03-31-2010, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HypnoMorph

Have you tried running the registration batch file after reinstalling Bitdefender? You probably did, but I just want to make sure.

Yes I have.

What are the differences between your PC and laptop?

Mr_Draco · 03-31-2010, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HypnoMorph

Draco:

Did Bitdefender quarantine one of these files?

No. I would get this error even before it scanned. Simply installing it on my PC would cause this error.

tmedwards · 03-31-2010, 03:04 PM

Just a note. Many anti-virus/malware software install hooks into the host OS filesystem and network for active/real-time scanning, so an explicit scan isn't necessary for files to be quarantined -- just having the software installed is generally enough these days. I'm not saying that's what happened, just that's it's possible.

HypnoMorph · 03-31-2010, 03:12 PM

I can't imagine taking ownership would make a difference, but it still could be tried. You may have to contact Bitdefender and ask them what is going on.

I know Bitdefender has had some issues not long ago with getting their customers proper support. I know, I ended up with some long discussions with one of their head honchos in Romania. I believe they have resolved most of the complications. It turned out they had phenomenal growth in clientele and their support staff did not grow fast enough to keep up.

I cannot say that I am completely satisfied with their support yet, let me know if you want details, although to be fair they are not doing worse than anyone else either. I did get excellent service and response from Vitor Souza and Nicole Balisteri. Vitor Souza is the Global Communications Manager and my research reveals him to be keenly interested in customer relations. Nicole is a customer service specialist, bolded because that really is her job and she does it very well. If you get a total run around, I might be able to help through these contacts. Just let me know.

As for the differences between my PC and laptop? Quire dissimilar. The PC is Vista 64 Ultimate quad processor with 8 gigs RAM. The laptop is Windows 7 64 Home dual processor with 4 gigs RAM. Both from Dell. PC setup for fun and general use. Laptop setup for return to school and relearning programming. Home network in total setup to get caught up regarding current computing trends and support. I am trying to get back on my feet and I have a lot of catching up to do.

Angel Darkover · 03-31-2010, 03:19 PM

It sounds to me more like a "shared" file incompatibility.

Scenario:
GCA uses file "Foo" with version Y, which is based off of version X but with added functionality that is needed.
BitDefender uses file "Foo" with version Z, which is based off of version X but with added functionality that BitDefender needs.
Assume version number Z is greater than Y, even though they forked at X so neither has the elements that the other requires. We assume this because reinstalling GCA after installing BitDefender doesn't resolve the issue, which is to be expected of smart installers if a file it means to install already exists and is of a higher version number (preventing downgrades on accident).
BitDefender installs Foo, changing a file GCA depends on and GCA produces the error. Uninstalling BitDefender deletes the file that GCA depends on, producing the other error seen.
Now that the file is gone, reinstalling GCA solves the issue.

If my hypothesis is correct, there is no easy reconciliation between the apps. Why on one system and not another? It could easily be a version issue. If Draco has the latest version of BitDefender, and Hypno doesn't, that could easily explain it. It could also be a bundling difference. There are plenty of explanations as to why even with supposedly identical products, there are different results. For example, Software Product 3 is installed with version A of "Foo", where A is greater than Y or Z, and has the needed libraries to support both other products. Now there is no conflict, but it's not clear 1) what that 3rd product is, 2) which file is in question, or 3) what is the magic file version that makes everything happy. This is the main problem with PCs, so many people creating so many great and needed software packages that total compatibility is impossible to manage. Heck, the resources to just check compatibility with all the anti-virus packages out there is enough to make most small-to-medium software companies give up even trying to verify compatibility. This is especially true for developers like Armin, who leverage 3rd party tools (which in general is smart, don't reinvent the wheel). When issues crop up from compatibility in areas they know they aren't doing anything in personally, they don't have the integral developer understanding of the 3rd party tool so they are at a disability to diagnose or debug the problem.

At least you've found some solution, Draco, and have an idea as to why it's happening.

HypnoMorph · 03-31-2010, 03:42 PM

Your not going to believe this, but my error has returned in a different form!

I have some kind of install corruption now. A different program, one I had installed earlier, tries to run whenever I start the character assistant. I have had this before, but I gotta try to remember how to fix it.

Unlike the previous 430 error, I do not get it at start up. It starts with no character loaded, I get the error when I start a new character.

Baffling. I did have Bitdefender update recently, so that is a suspect. The installer for the app that keeps coming up now is also a suspect.

Dark Angel, your hypothesis seems to be gaining strength. Thank you for your thoughts on the matter. Lets see if I can find something further.

I will let you know the results of my troubleshooting shortly. Well actually it may take a bit longer than that, my wife wants to Left 4 Dead 2 which may take the rest of day. I will get back with you when I can, duty calls!

HypnoMorph · 03-31-2010, 03:48 PM

Rerunning the re-registration batch file, without doing anything else fixed both problems, Character Assistant and wrong install.

Baffling.

Any ideas?

I also discovered I failed to put an echo before Process Complete in my batch file previously. I fixed it in my post. Armin & EricbSmith, did you guys catch the error in your versions?

HypnoMorph · 03-31-2010, 04:06 PM

Hey Armin,

I notice you log at least some activity during program start up. Is that automatically stored locally or only when ordered? Are there any more detailed logging options, like a debug or diagnostic mode?

As I said previously, this problem is not your fault, but information logged by your application, if there is any, may provide useful information. I would like to know precisely which file or files gets listed as not found. Do you have anything like that available?

If we were able to get the problem to be reproducible on your end, you could use your development suite's debugger to investigate. The problem being I have no idea how to reproduce it on a system not already experiencing the problem. Oh well, that's how it goes.

Thanks,

Miles
HypnoMorph

HypnoMorph · 03-31-2010, 04:14 PM

Sorry for the stream of consciousness writing here, but I want to explore an idea here with you all. The Microsoft article talked about changing a DLL to an EXE. That theoretically could apply to a change from any of the other library types like OCX, etc.

If GURPS Character Assistant installing one form and Bitdefender, or whatever, installing another form? That would seem to be a significant compatibility problem along the lines of what Angel Darkover was describing.

I am out of date on this and will have to experiment a bit, but maybe one of you knows off hand, how do get Windows to report system changes of this nature in detail?

My wife and Left 4 Dead 2 are calling, I gotta go for now!

03-31-2010, 02:29 PM	#31
HypnoMorph Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Currently in Kansas	Re: Run Time Error 430 After Update Draco: Did Bitdefender quarantine one of these files? "Now I think my problem was the two programs was sharing a file and with Bit Defender already running and using that file, the computer was not allowing GCA to access and use the file thus causing the error but I'm not sure." If there is a problem as you theorized, you might try to take ownership of the files in question. That has been the only way I have resolved some rights related issues in the past. Last edited by HypnoMorph; 03-31-2010 at 02:33 PM.

03-31-2010, 03:04 PM	#34
tmedwards Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Krotz Springs, LA US	Re: Run Time Error 430 After Update Just a note. Many anti-virus/malware software install hooks into the host OS filesystem and network for active/real-time scanning, so an explicit scan isn't necessary for files to be quarantined -- just having the software installed is generally enough these days. I'm not saying that's what happened, just that's it's possible. __________________ Thomas M. EDWARDS <tmedwards@motoslave.net> GCA4 resources: GCA Repository, Phoenix (r66), GMCS (2.17), Bookish (r12)

03-31-2010, 03:12 PM	#35
HypnoMorph Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Currently in Kansas	Re: Run Time Error 430 After Update I can't imagine taking ownership would make a difference, but it still could be tried. You may have to contact Bitdefender and ask them what is going on. I know Bitdefender has had some issues not long ago with getting their customers proper support. I know, I ended up with some long discussions with one of their head honchos in Romania. I believe they have resolved most of the complications. It turned out they had phenomenal growth in clientele and their support staff did not grow fast enough to keep up. I cannot say that I am completely satisfied with their support yet, let me know if you want details, although to be fair they are not doing worse than anyone else either. I did get excellent service and response from Vitor Souza and Nicole Balisteri. Vitor Souza is the Global Communications Manager and my research reveals him to be keenly interested in customer relations. Nicole is a customer service specialist, bolded because that really is her job and she does it very well. If you get a total run around, I might be able to help through these contacts. Just let me know. As for the differences between my PC and laptop? Quire dissimilar. The PC is Vista 64 Ultimate quad processor with 8 gigs RAM. The laptop is Windows 7 64 Home dual processor with 4 gigs RAM. Both from Dell. PC setup for fun and general use. Laptop setup for return to school and relearning programming. Home network in total setup to get caught up regarding current computing trends and support. I am trying to get back on my feet and I have a lot of catching up to do.

03-31-2010, 03:19 PM	#36
Angel Darkover Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Seattle, WA	Re: Run Time Error 430 After Update It sounds to me more like a "shared" file incompatibility. Scenario: GCA uses file "Foo" with version Y, which is based off of version X but with added functionality that is needed. BitDefender uses file "Foo" with version Z, which is based off of version X but with added functionality that BitDefender needs. Assume version number Z is greater than Y, even though they forked at X so neither has the elements that the other requires. We assume this because reinstalling GCA after installing BitDefender doesn't resolve the issue, which is to be expected of smart installers if a file it means to install already exists and is of a higher version number (preventing downgrades on accident). BitDefender installs Foo, changing a file GCA depends on and GCA produces the error. Uninstalling BitDefender deletes the file that GCA depends on, producing the other error seen. Now that the file is gone, reinstalling GCA solves the issue. If my hypothesis is correct, there is no easy reconciliation between the apps. Why on one system and not another? It could easily be a version issue. If Draco has the latest version of BitDefender, and Hypno doesn't, that could easily explain it. It could also be a bundling difference. There are plenty of explanations as to why even with supposedly identical products, there are different results. For example, Software Product 3 is installed with version A of "Foo", where A is greater than Y or Z, and has the needed libraries to support both other products. Now there is no conflict, but it's not clear 1) what that 3rd product is, 2) which file is in question, or 3) what is the magic file version that makes everything happy. This is the main problem with PCs, so many people creating so many great and needed software packages that total compatibility is impossible to manage. Heck, the resources to just check compatibility with all the anti-virus packages out there is enough to make most small-to-medium software companies give up even trying to verify compatibility. This is especially true for developers like Armin, who leverage 3rd party tools (which in general is smart, don't reinvent the wheel). When issues crop up from compatibility in areas they know they aren't doing anything in personally, they don't have the integral developer understanding of the 3rd party tool so they are at a disability to diagnose or debug the problem. At least you've found some solution, Draco, and have an idea as to why it's happening. __________________ Madness takes its toll. Please have correct change. Last edited by Angel Darkover; 03-31-2010 at 03:28 PM.

03-31-2010, 03:42 PM	#37
HypnoMorph Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Currently in Kansas	Re: Run Time Error 430 After Update Your not going to believe this, but my error has returned in a different form! I have some kind of install corruption now. A different program, one I had installed earlier, tries to run whenever I start the character assistant. I have had this before, but I gotta try to remember how to fix it. Unlike the previous 430 error, I do not get it at start up. It starts with no character loaded, I get the error when I start a new character. Baffling. I did have Bitdefender update recently, so that is a suspect. The installer for the app that keeps coming up now is also a suspect. Dark Angel, your hypothesis seems to be gaining strength. Thank you for your thoughts on the matter. Lets see if I can find something further. I will let you know the results of my troubleshooting shortly. Well actually it may take a bit longer than that, my wife wants to Left 4 Dead 2 which may take the rest of day. I will get back with you when I can, duty calls!

03-31-2010, 03:48 PM	#38
HypnoMorph Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Currently in Kansas	Re: Run Time Error 430 After Update Rerunning the re-registration batch file, without doing anything else fixed both problems, Character Assistant and wrong install. Baffling. Any ideas? I also discovered I failed to put an echo before Process Complete in my batch file previously. I fixed it in my post. Armin & EricbSmith, did you guys catch the error in your versions?

03-31-2010, 04:06 PM	#39
HypnoMorph Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Currently in Kansas	Re: Run Time Error 430 After Update Hey Armin, I notice you log at least some activity during program start up. Is that automatically stored locally or only when ordered? Are there any more detailed logging options, like a debug or diagnostic mode? As I said previously, this problem is not your fault, but information logged by your application, if there is any, may provide useful information. I would like to know precisely which file or files gets listed as not found. Do you have anything like that available? If we were able to get the problem to be reproducible on your end, you could use your development suite's debugger to investigate. The problem being I have no idea how to reproduce it on a system not already experiencing the problem. Oh well, that's how it goes. Thanks, Miles HypnoMorph

03-31-2010, 04:14 PM	#40
HypnoMorph Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Currently in Kansas	Re: Run Time Error 430 After Update Sorry for the stream of consciousness writing here, but I want to explore an idea here with you all. The Microsoft article talked about changing a DLL to an EXE. That theoretically could apply to a change from any of the other library types like OCX, etc. If GURPS Character Assistant installing one form and Bitdefender, or whatever, installing another form? That would seem to be a significant compatibility problem along the lines of what Angel Darkover was describing. I am out of date on this and will have to experiment a bit, but maybe one of you knows off hand, how do get Windows to report system changes of this nature in detail? My wife and Left 4 Dead 2 are calling, I gotta go for now!