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Old 11-03-2021, 07:43 AM   #21
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: test driving GURPS Realm Management

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Thanks! I'll get back to you.
No worries. Glad to help.
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Old 11-03-2021, 08:21 AM   #22
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Default Re: test driving GURPS Realm Management

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Its not a finite expendable resource though. Resource points are consumable and don't automatically regenerate. The orbital elevator is a static resource that generates wealth depending on the outer economy.
But I think that trade via the elevator is a finite expendable resource in some sense. Though perhaps it's more a way of gaining access to other realms that aren't on Mars.
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Old 11-03-2021, 08:39 AM   #23
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Default Re: test driving GURPS Realm Management

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But I think that trade via the elevator is a finite expendable resource in some sense. Though perhaps it's more a way of gaining access to other realms that aren't on Mars.
You could represent this as a Renewing Resource or Reserve (Type) enhancement too actually if you wanted.
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Old 11-03-2021, 02:58 PM   #24
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Default Re: test driving GURPS Realm Management

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But I think that trade via the elevator is a finite expendable resource in some sense. Though perhaps it's more a way of gaining access to other realms that aren't on Mars.
It seems to me that it's a combination of Clear Routes (which boosts the ability to Trade) and, if tolls on through traffic are a significant revenue stream, Independent Revenue Stream.
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Old 11-03-2021, 08:55 PM   #25
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Default Re: test driving GURPS Realm Management

Here's what I've come up with from consulting GURPS City Stats, with some minor adjustments (mainly to military concerns):

Population: 50,000. Maximum sustainable carrying capacity 1200/square mile (as for TL12; two levels of Higher Carrying Capacity, +10%) implies area of 42 square miles. Realm Size Value +6: city-state. Urbanized area 6400/square mile implies area of 8 square miles.

Terrain: Rock Planet, Mountains, Sealed. Defensible Terrain (high mountains, +2; +20%). Habitability is independent of terrain; outside of sealed space, the environment is lethal without special protective gear.

Appearance: Unattractive (-1 reactions; -4%).

Hygiene: +1. [This seems as if it would give a superior ability to resist plague, but I’m not sure how to represent that. The modifier is a product of the high TL.]

No Mana (No Enchantment). Magic doesn’t work. No realm modifiers needed.

Language: Portuguese.

Literacy: Native. TL10 implies ER5 (near-universal); however, between the high immigration rate and the unregulated economy (where apprenticeship is more common than higher education), it’s actually ER4 (common; Uneducated Populace, -10%).

TL10 (equal to campaign TL). Infrastructure is advanced for corporate employees and the wealthy, but loose for immigrants and the poor (+12.5%/-12.5%).

Wealth: Average. Monthly income is $5600 x 0.6 (cost of survival in a hostile environment) x 2 (equivalent to Comfortable wealth) = $6720.

Status: -2 to 6 (neither higher nor lower quality of life).

Government: Nominal autocracy/dictatorship (under the sovereignty of the Empire of Brazil): no practical effects. Functional kritarchy (+1 Citizen Loyalty for corruption; -1 Management Skill). The local realm is a territory of the Empire, with local government franchised to a subsidiary of Construção Orbital (treated as a corporate state: +2 Management Skill; -1 corruption).

Control Rating: 2. Pavonis Portal is neither a Loose nor a Secure Society; the Empire has one level of Loose Society, with the local corporate government filling in the gaps.

Military Resources: $3360K. The great majority of this goes to maintain a battalion of battlesuit troopers.

Defense Bonus: +7 (+2 free from mountainous terrain; +5 from underground tunnels).

So,

1. Does this seem to make sense and to use RM properly?

2. How do we address the things I didn't know how to represent?

3. How might the rest of the RM stats be filled in?
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Old 11-04-2021, 05:54 AM   #26
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Default Re: test driving GURPS Realm Management

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
Population: 50,000. Maximum sustainable carrying capacity 1200/square mile (as for TL12; two levels of Higher Carrying Capacity, +10%) implies area of 42 square miles. Realm Size Value +6: city-state. Urbanized area 6400/square mile implies area of 8 square miles.
That seems correct. Yes.

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Terrain: Rock Planet, Mountains, Sealed. Defensible Terrain (high mountains, +2; +20%). Habitability is independent of terrain; outside of sealed space, the environment is lethal without special protective gear.
I'd probably put Habitability at Neutral or Good.

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Appearance: Unattractive (-1 reactions; -4%).
Yep.

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Hygiene: +1. [This seems as if it would give a superior ability to resist plague, but I’m not sure how to represent that. The modifier is a product of the high TL.]
This is nominally rolled into Infrastructure. I didn't want to add yet another stat and this one seemed ok as a part of that one. That said, a bonus to resist plagues is probably worth +2% per +1 bonus or thereabouts.

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Literacy: Native. TL10 implies ER5 (near-universal); however, between the high immigration rate and the unregulated economy (where apprenticeship is more common than higher education), it’s actually ER4 (common; Uneducated Populace, -10%).
Seems right.

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TL10 (equal to campaign TL). Infrastructure is advanced for corporate employees and the wealthy, but loose for immigrants and the poor (+12.5%/-12.5%).
That seems right. Yeah. So IR 4/2.

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Wealth: Average. Monthly income is $5600 x 0.6 (cost of survival in a hostile environment) x 2 (equivalent to Comfortable wealth) = $6720.
Still seems a bit much. Remember, Wealth and having a job that doesn't correspond to it are possible. Do all average citizens really have Comfortable jobs?

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Status: -2 to 6 (neither higher nor lower quality of life).
Seems right.

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Government: Nominal autocracy/dictatorship (under the sovereignty of the Empire of Brazil): no practical effects. Functional kritarchy (+1 Citizen Loyalty for corruption; -1 Management Skill). The local realm is a territory of the Empire, with local government franchised to a subsidiary of Construção Orbital (treated as a corporate state: +2 Management Skill; -1 corruption).
So this is a hybrid realm then?


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Control Rating: 2. Pavonis Portal is neither a Loose nor a Secure Society; the Empire has one level of Loose Society, with the local corporate government filling in the gaps.
Cool.

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
Military Resources: $3360K. The great majority of this goes to maintain a battalion of battlesuit troopers.
Oof.

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Defense Bonus: +7 (+2 free from mountainous terrain; +5 from underground tunnels).
That tracks. Yes.

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1. Does this seem to make sense and to use RM properly?
Yes. Mostly.

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2. How do we address the things I didn't know how to represent?
I've put some notes up there. The next thing we need to do is use the stat block, fill in everything we know, then go over the rest.
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Old 11-04-2021, 07:26 AM   #27
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Default Re: test driving GURPS Realm Management

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Still seems a bit much. Remember, Wealth and having a job that doesn't correspond to it are possible. Do all average citizens really have Comfortable jobs?
By Martian standards, I think yes. Pavonis Portal is the ground terminus for Mars's orbital elevator; the great majority of trade with/supply from Earth comes to Mars via elevator. So there's the industry of maintaining the transportation system, the industry of shipping goods across Mars, the financial sector, and a lot of local enterprises that profit from relatively cheap access to imported goods.

I think it's reasonable that a world, society, or culture should have some cities that are richer or poorer than usual. And PP really seems like an obvious candidate for "richer."

But of course it has an untrimmed spectrum of wealth, from Multimillionaire all the way down to Poor (or even Dead Broke).
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Old 11-04-2021, 07:26 AM   #28
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Default Re: test driving GURPS Realm Management

I've made a pass through the realm design system, item by item, and here's my first guess:

Realm Size: +6

Resource Points: Agriculture: 0 or low positive. Luxury/Precious Goods: positive. Natural Resources: 0 (relies on imports). Workforce: high positive (large immigrant population).

TL: TL10.

Cultural Traits: Probably none.

Population: 50,000.

Citizen Loyalty: Good (13)—many citizens are voluntary immigrants who came looking for economic opportunity and/or freedom from religious persecution. With Control Rating 2, the Will modifier to resist Influence rolls seeking betrayal of the realm is +2. This gives +15% for Loyal Citizenry.

[The text says that half of this modifier is subtracted from rolls to seek criminal transactions, which gives -1. But I don’t understand how this is “a generalized form of a city’s Corruption.”
If Pavonis Portal had Corruption -2, would we subtract 2 from Streetwise or Savoir-Faire rolls to buy something illegal? That seems wrong: A corruption score makes it easier to deal under the table; it never makes it harder
A Corruption score is a *modifier* to a city’s effective Control Rating, but the Citizen Loyalty modifier is *based on* a city’s Control Rating. I don’t see how both of those can be true.]

Infrastructure Rating: IR4 for corporate employees and the wealthy; IR2 for the poor and immigrants.

Control Rating: The Imperial CR is 1, but the local corporate CR is 2, and that’s what people generally actually live under. However, CR is 4 for threats to survival in the harsh Martian environment (would this be Secure Society 2 (physical survival) +10%?).

Conformity Rating: ConR3 (moderate). Mutual reactions at +2 outside the realm.

Openness Rating: OR4 (mildly open). +1 reactions to local people who speak a foreign language (neutral to immigrants who don’t speak Portuguese).

Government Type: Nominal autocracy/dictatorship (monarchy); functional kritarchy; local corporate state.

Economy Type: Capitalism.

Defense Bonus: +7 (including +2 from Defensible Terrain, +20%).

Education Rating: ER4 (common). Counts as Uneducated Populace, -10%.

Management Skill: Combined bonuses (from corporate state) and penalties (from kritarchy) give +1, which implies 13 (upper limit 16). I’m going to assume Usually Reliable Management. That gives combined +30% to Realm Value.

Habitability: Determined by internal environment of sealed spaces. I’m going to call this Good Habitability (13; +1 modifier). That’s Habitable Land, +10%. However, it ranges from Excellent for the extremely wealthy to Poor for the worst off.

Reaction-Time Modifier: -1 for TL10, +1 for Management Skill 13, +3 for Status 6, total +3. [Could the IR4 for corporate employees give it the equivalent of TL11+ for another -1, total +2?]

Realm Value: This is a highly capitalistic economy without a lot of regulation; people often start work young, gain skills on the job or as apprentices, and continue working into old age, without “retirement.” This would be Able Populace, +25%. Use 0.8 rather than 0.6 as a multiplier. Realm Value is $268.8M. It looks like the modifiers add up to +75%, adding $201.6M, for a total of $470.4M. This is 9408x starting wealth, making the realm a 10-point Patron.

[I’m not sure what should be added for the resource points.]

Military Resources: The military budget factor is $3360K. Logistic capability costs $1120K, leaving $2240K for actual combat forces. The cost to maintain a battalion of battlesuit troopers is $1862.6K, leaving a modest $377.4K for a small local military reserve (primarily intended to provide officers and noncoms for a mobilized citizenry in case of war). Cost to raise the battlesuit troopers was $19,178K, which is added to the realm’s base value.

Revenue: $134.4M. The orbital elevator provides an independent revenue stream that adds 50% to this. That boosts the realm value by $134.4M, for a total of $604.8M. The elevator also provides Clear Routes 5, but only for interplanetary trade (+25%; boosts realm value by $67.2M, for a total of $672M). Taking all these factors into account, Pavonis Portal appears to be a 15-point Patron.

[Alternatively, PP could have Clear Routes 2 and Facile, based on advanced cybernetic support for decision makers. That would still total +25% and would reduce the penalty for multiple maneuvers.]
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Old 11-04-2021, 03:13 PM   #29
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Default Re: test driving GURPS Realm Management

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
Resource Points: Agriculture: 0 or low positive. Luxury/Precious Goods: positive. Natural Resources: 0 (relies on imports). Workforce: high positive (large immigrant population).
I originally had RP based on the realm's size...but that didn't work out to well. I'd probably give 4-5 points for Agriculture, 7-10 for Luxury Goods, and 10+ for Workforce. 0 for Natural Resources seems appropriate.

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[The text says that half of this modifier is subtracted from rolls to seek criminal transactions, which gives -1. But I don’t understand how this is “a generalized form of a city’s Corruption.”
If Pavonis Portal had Corruption -2, would we subtract 2 from Streetwise or Savoir-Faire rolls to buy something illegal? That seems wrong: A corruption score makes it easier to deal under the table; it never makes it harder
A Corruption score is a *modifier* to a city’s effective Control Rating, but the Citizen Loyalty modifier is *based on* a city’s Control Rating. I don’t see how both of those can be true.]
It's supposed add half the modifier for low loyalty and subtract it for high loyalty. This slipped past I guess. More for the errata bin.

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
Control Rating: The Imperial CR is 1, but the local corporate CR is 2, and that’s what people generally actually live under. However, CR is 4 for threats to survival in the harsh Martian environment (would this be Secure Society 2 (physical survival) +10%?).
You could do that, sure.

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
Management Skill: Combined bonuses (from corporate state) and penalties (from kritarchy) give +1, which implies 13 (upper limit 16). I’m going to assume Usually Reliable Management. That gives combined +30% to Realm Value.
I'd bump the skill level up to 14 I think. You want competent management in a realm like this.

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
Habitability: Determined by internal environment of sealed spaces. I’m going to call this Good Habitability (13; +1 modifier). That’s Habitable Land, +10%. However, it ranges from Excellent for the extremely wealthy to Poor for the worst off.
Just put that into notes. That's fine.

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
Reaction-Time Modifier: -1 for TL10, +1 for Management Skill 13, +3 for Status 6, total +3. [Could the IR4 for corporate employees give it the equivalent of TL11+ for another -1, total +2?]
For stuff that could benefit them in some way? Sure. That seems doable.

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[I’m not sure what should be added for the resource points.]
It's 0.5% of the base value per RP on p. 6.

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Military Resources: The military budget factor is $3360K. Logistic capability costs $1120K, leaving $2240K for actual combat forces. The cost to maintain a battalion of battlesuit troopers is $1862.6K, leaving a modest $377.4K for a small local military reserve (primarily intended to provide officers and noncoms for a mobilized citizenry in case of war). Cost to raise the battlesuit troopers was $19,178K, which is added to the realm’s base value.
Just make sure you don't add this directly too it as the realm's base value shouldn't include troops as that artificially inflates other traits.

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Revenue: $134.4M. The orbital elevator provides an independent revenue stream that adds 50% to this. That boosts the realm value by $134.4M, for a total of $604.8M. The elevator also provides Clear Routes 5, but only for interplanetary trade (+25%; boosts realm value by $67.2M, for a total of $672M). Taking all these factors into account, Pavonis Portal appears to be a 15-point Patron.
I like it.

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[Alternatively, PP could have Clear Routes 2 and Facile, based on advanced cybernetic support for decision makers. That would still total +25% and would reduce the penalty for multiple maneuvers.]
This could also work and might be the better option overall.
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Old 11-04-2021, 03:37 PM   #30
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Default Re: test driving GURPS Realm Management

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It's supposed add half the modifier for low loyalty and subtract it for high loyalty. This slipped past I guess. More for the errata bin.
I'm sorry I didn't spot this during the playtest, but it seems to me now that this is an unnecessarily complex approach. What Corruption is actually supposed to do is to lower a city's effective CR for those who are in the know. That could be defined as a realm having a split CR: a higher CR for the general citizenry and a lower one for whichever group has the relevant skill.

So if a realm has CR6, it has a minimum of +3 to Will to resist Influence rolls to get someone to break the law. But what if it has Corruption -6? That says that if you have an "in," you can get any law whatever set aside for your own gain or bias. The high CR just doesn't impede you doing what you want.
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