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Old 09-25-2022, 08:18 PM   #31
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: My GURPS Star Trek(ish) Campaign

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Originally Posted by Prince Charon View Post
Khan would be in for a hell of a surprise on that version of the Big E, but on the other hand, he might also be less hostile to them - or maybe it's a timeline where he won, and there was no need to go into stasis.

Really, it's a concept that's worth expanding upon.
The Federation (or rather Earth) might only approve of the most uncontroversial modifications. Bonuses to HT and related abilities seem likely. High HT scores might explain several survivals. Also why disintegrating weaposn appear necessary.

Even jsut usig general info ad not spcific epsiodes a number of other aces in the setting look like they've had genetic engineering in the past. Besides Vulcans an dKlingons there's the race of the Doctor from Enterprise (Denobulans?)
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Old 09-25-2022, 11:40 PM   #32
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Default Re: My GURPS Star Trek(ish) Campaign

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Originally Posted by Pursuivant View Post
This sort of transporter is shown in canon,



In canon, transport pattern enhancers fill this role.
Perhaps you missed the part where I mentioned that I tend to lean more toward trek-ish; that is, like trek, but not too much like trek. Trek has patch on top of patch on top of patch on top of patch to make everything work; I had been kind of hoping that rebuilding something similar from the ground up, many of those patches could be done away with by simply not having the problem that needs patching in the first place.
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Old 09-26-2022, 03:07 PM   #33
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Default Re: My GURPS Star Trek(ish) Campaign

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
The Federation (or rather Earth) might only approve of the most uncontroversial modifications. Bonuses to HT and related abilities seem likely. High HT scores might explain several survivals. Also why disintegrating weaposn appear necessary.

Even jsut usig general info ad not spcific epsiodes a number of other aces in the setting look like they've had genetic engineering in the past. Besides Vulcans an dKlingons there's the race of the Doctor from Enterprise (Denobulans?)
Well Star Trek is confused as to what Khan is — TOS expressed said his people were the product of selective breeding with the genetic engineering being a retcon.

More over the Federation was totally willing to go to that pool again as shown in "Unnatural Selection" and 'by the book' Picard didn't read Darwin Genetic Research Station on Gagarin Four the riot act.

SPOCK: Because the scientists overlooked one fact. Superior ability breeds superior ambition. (Space Seed)

PULASKI: Genetically engineered?
KINGSLEY: Not engineered, created. Perfect in every way. Their body structure, their musculature, their minds. (Unnatural Selection)

Same problem as Khan — just a bunch of fancy semantics to dodge the real issue: nurture vs nature.

Never mind that the attempt to make Star Trek a possible future for us makes no sense. The best 1990's genetic could do for living things beyond bacteria was in vitro gene alteration....which still messes up the timeline like crazy.
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Old 09-26-2022, 06:32 PM   #34
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Default Re: My GURPS Star Trek(ish) Campaign

I'm interested in knowing what you think those patches are.
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Old 09-26-2022, 07:27 PM   #35
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Default Re: My GURPS Star Trek(ish) Campaign

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Originally Posted by dataweaver View Post
Perhaps you missed the part where I mentioned that I tend to lean more toward trek-ish; that is, like trek, but not too much like trek. Trek has patch on top of patch on top of patch on top of patch to make everything work; I had been kind of hoping that rebuilding something similar from the ground up, many of those patches could be done away with by simply not having the problem that needs patching in the first place.
I suggest that you start out by questioning transporters. I understand that they were introduced to save time and money on shuttle landing sequences in the original show, and those are two constraints that don't apply to RPGs. But transporters are such powerful plot-breakers that Trek had to apply patch after patch, even without worries about identity and the soul.

On the other hand, transporters and transporter buffers and transporter pattern backup and transporter tech used as a fabrication technology are now very much part of the distinctive flavour of Trek, and you might want to preserve it. But think about maybe needing a transporter beacon like the transporter bracelets in Blake's Seven. Unrestricted Trek transporters that can move a thing from anywhere to anywhere are so useful for infiltrators, burglars, thieves, saboteurs, murderers, assassins, and terrorists that your world-building gets very involved to take account of them.
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Old 09-27-2022, 11:13 AM   #36
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Default Re: My GURPS Star Trek(ish) Campaign

Concerning Transporters, they are ubiquitous for Star Trek, so again, for my game, I'm keeping them. I can work out how to block them as the game goes. Worked for the writing staff, works for me.

For now, quick update, about some thoughts I had involving Spaceship rules:

Fleshing out the Spaceship Rules for this Trek Game

GURPS Prime Directive (4e Revised) does include rules for building Star Trek-style ships using the GURPS Spaceship ruleset, but I will veer closer to standard Spaceship rules for the following purposes:

-In General, all Trek spaceships will be using the Cosmic Power switch, as most ship systems are

-Photon Torpedoes: The PD Revised sourcebook treats Photon torpedoes more as beam projectiles, because they “can’t be intercepted or shot down.” But since newer material treats Photon Torpedoes as physical rocket-like devices with antimatter warheads, we’ll be treating them as Warp Missiles.

-Phasers and Disruptors: Treated as Particle Beams. Their distinction matters little as starship weapons, so I can use the same rules for both for simplicity.

Alternatively, I can adapt the weapon type damages for different particle types, based on the rules from Star Trek Online:
Phaser: 2.5% chance to disable a random subsystem
Disruptor: 2.5% chance to lower the targets hull damage resistance by 10% for 15 sec
Plasma: 2.5% chance to apply a non-stacking damage-over-time debuff
Polaron: 2.5% chance to reduce all enemy subsystem power levels by 25
Tetryon: 2.5% chance to deal additional shield damage
Antiproton: +20 to Critical Severity

This could probably be turned into modifiers to Beam Weapons. Phasers get a bonus to disrupting subsystems, Disruptors get armor penetration, Tetryons get shield penetration, etc.

Laser Weapons just don’t seem to be valid against Shield-using starships; although nothing is mentioned of X-Ray or Gamma-Ray Lasers, so those are still up in the air.

-Shields: standard Shields include both the Adjustable and Reality-Stabilized lenses, as starship shields can block transporter beams.

-Sensors and Comms: Use the FTL and Multiscanner Array rules

I’ll come back to this another day, just wanted to get some thoughts out right now.
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Old 09-27-2022, 01:02 PM   #37
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: My GURPS Star Trek(ish) Campaign

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Originally Posted by LoneWolf23k View Post
Laser Weapons just don’t seem to be valid against Shield-using starships; although nothing is mentioned of X-Ray or Gamma-Ray Lasers, so those are still up in the air.

-.
X-ray lasers were mentioned once during TNG when a ship armed with them was encountered. It was agreed among the bridge crew that they were no threat to the Enterprise-D's shields.

It might be enough to make them (and probably other lasers) Non-Cosmic.
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Old 09-27-2022, 02:45 PM   #38
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Default Re: My GURPS Star Trek(ish) Campaign

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Perhaps you missed the part where I mentioned that I tend to lean more toward trek-ish; that is, like trek, but not too much like trek.
Fair enough, but I wasn't sure which bits you wanted to be "Star Trek," and which bits you want to be "Star Trek-ish."

I'm not mentioning canon material to shoot ideas down, but to point out technical features that appear in canon which folks might have missed.

Inevitably, players will bring up canon material, so the GM should be ready for that sort of discussion. For example, if you're going to seriously change transporter technology to make it more "gate-like," it's fair to tell players about the change up front.
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Old 09-27-2022, 03:01 PM   #39
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Default Re: My GURPS Star Trek(ish) Campaign

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Well Star Trek is confused as to what Khan is — TOS expressed said his people were the product of selective breeding with the genetic engineering being a retcon.
This got straightened out in the TNG era shows, especially DS9. Khan-style "Augments" also featured in Season 4 of Enterprise.

It's clear that the Federation has no problem with genetic engineering to correct genetic defects or even to possibly "gently" augment things like disease resistance.

They draw the line at the sort of "transhuman" genetic engineering which makes serious morphological or physiological changes to the basic human genome, or one-off genetic enhancements which seriously boost human physical or mental potential at the expense of overall health or mental stability.

Darwin Genetic Research station is clearly a one-off and is possibly a secure facility designed to humanely deal with an illegally created population of augmented humans. It could also be some sort of super-secret facility that someone in the Federation, Starfleet, or Section 31 thought was a good idea at the time.

There are also multiple neutral planets in and around Federation space where much more extreme genetic engineering happens on a regular basis. It's illegal for Federation citizens to knowingly benefit from such modifications, however, or allow them to be performed on their dependents.

The negative consequences of "black market" human augmentation appear in a number of episodes of DS9, starting with Dr. Bashir's background, and then extending to a group of brilliant but badly flawed augments he befriends.

"Noonien-Singh" style augments - super-powered sociopaths - are an early and badly flawed attempt at augmenting the human genome to produce a race of supermen. Their psychological problems seem to be as much based on the evil genius of their creator, who apparently comes from a long and prolific line of evil geniuses.
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Old 09-27-2022, 03:11 PM   #40
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Default Re: My GURPS Star Trek(ish) Campaign

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Originally Posted by LoneWolf23k View Post
For now, quick update, about some thoughts I had involving Spaceship rules:
The really unique thing about Star Trek ship combat is that the crew can shunt energy around the ship to boost certain systems, possibly at the expense of others. I'm not sure that GURPS Spaceships really digs into that design option.

There are also weapon systems which are designed to drain power from opposing ships, or shut down their power generation systems, as well as limited means of beaming power between ships.

I've got no ideas on how to model these systems, however.
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