Weapon Master for Guns

[Zwitty]

Hi, I was having a discussion with one of my players and we started a conversation about why Weapon Master doesn't include guns. I have the issue of the damage bonus, he agreed. But we then thought to make a new advantage like Weapon Master but for guns. I was wondering what kind of bonuses would there be, and what would be good things to include in this new advantage. I was also wondering on how to price it.

Thanks, Zwitty

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Zwitty

Hi, I was having a discussion with one of my players and we started a conversation about why Weapon Master doesn't include guns. I have the issue of the damage bonus, he agreed. But we then thought to make a new advantage like Weapon Master but for guns. I was wondering what kind of bonuses would there be, and what would be good things to include in this new advantage. I was also wondering on how to price it.

Thanks, Zwitty

Take a look at Heroic Archer, which I think is basically Weapon Master for Bows.

Gunslinger, I believe, is also a more-or-less equivalent to WM for guns, and gets a big boost in Gun Fu.

Edit: Seriously, see p15 of Gun Fu. You won't be disappointed.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Take a look at Heroic Archer, which I think is basically Weapon Master for Bows.

Not really. Heroic Archer is Gunslinger for bows. Weapon Master (Bow) and Heroic Archer have some overlap (in the Quick Shooting rules, IIRC) where they stack but otherwise do different things. Weapon Master is mainly about the Damage Bonus.

[Zwitty]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Not really. Heroic Archer is Gunslinger for bows. Weapon Master (Bow) and Heroic Archer have some overlap (in the Quick Shooting rules, IIRC) where they stack but otherwise do different things. Weapon Master is mainly about the Damage Bonus.

This much is true, after seeing the Gun-Fu version of Gunsliger, that is somewhat what I'm looking for. I guess I didn't look there because this wasn't for a cinematic campaign, but oh well.

Also is there anyway to justify damage bonuses for guns?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Zwitty

This much is true, after seeing the Gun-Fu version of Gunsliger, that is somewhat what I'm looking for. I guess I didn't look there because this wasn't for a cinematic campaign, but oh well.

If it's not a cinematic campaign then why are discussing Weapon Master at all?

Also is there anyway to justify damage bonuses for guns?

Presumably the bonus comes from the Master's own delivery of the attack, either from chi-energy or just skillful Masterstrokes. I don't see why that can't be extended to Guns in a suitable milieu honestly, but it is verboten by RAW. Weapon Master (Firearms) (Cosmic (Can be Firearms)+50%?

[Mailanka]

Don't guns deal enough damage already?

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Weapon Master is mainly about the Damage Bonus.

That may be why it's liked, but WM is about four things:

The damage bonus, which is indeed tasty.

Halve penalties for attacking and defending more than once

Improved defaults on related weapons skills within a category

Access to cinematic skills and perks

Gunslinger gives:

Acc without taking Aim
Lots of waiving of penalties while moving
Halve penalties for many varieties of firing quickly
Easier fast draw to allow reloading on the move
Can have access to cinematic skills, including Invisibility Art and Flying Leap

Toss in Weapon Bond to most TL8 service pistols, and getting Acc without Aim means a +3 bonus...which means you can target the vitals for x3 base damage at effectively no penalty. that's "increased damage bonus" right there.

We can quibble, but I think Gunslinger = WM for Guns() skills isn't a bad description.

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

Don't guns deal enough damage already?

... what is this "enough" damage? Is it anything like explosive damage?

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Zwitty

This much is true, after seeing the Gun-Fu version of Gunsliger, that is somewhat what I'm looking for. I guess I didn't look there because this wasn't for a cinematic campaign, but oh well.

Also is there anyway to justify damage bonuses for guns?

Only by targeting more dangerous places in the human body. Vitals (as I say above) is one way; allowing a Veins and Arteries type location for enhanced bleeding is another. So is attacking the Brain. All of those give better wounds.

Shooting at Chinks in Armor for DR/2 is a way of enhancing penetration.

Both of those are "realistic" to the extent that these things happen. Having enough skill to actually pull that stuff off reliably isn't realistic, but it IS a lot of fun.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

That may be why it's liked, but WM is about four things:
[snip]
We can quibble, but I think Gunslinger = WM for Guns() skills isn't a bad description.

My point was that many cinematic archers in GURPS take both traits (cf. the DF Scout template). There is precious little other than the damage bonus and quartering (rather then merely halving) the Quick Shooting Bows penalty to take Weapon Master(Bow).

Halve penalties for attacking and defending more than once

Doesn't apply to bows, which cannot Rapid Strike.

Improved defaults on related weapons skills within a category

Doesn't apply to a single skill limited Weapon Master.