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Old 09-12-2006, 07:51 PM   #1
Gabriel451
 
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Default Who is that guy?

I don't own all the books, I'm afraid, due to the fact that I live in a town similar to a gaming black hole. However, having read through all the books I could get my hands on, I am left with one, all consuming, mind blowing question:

Who or what is Kronos?!

What I know so far...
He is not a demon, per se. He is connected to the Symphony, and the inherent selfishness of demons prevent that connection.

He is responsible for the degredation of everything. He controls the unfortunate final future of everyone, exactly opposite of Yves.

He seems to be acknowledged as a nequal or superior by all the inhabitants of Hell, even to some extent by Lucifer himself.

My assumption:
Kronos is actually the reforming Forces from Uriel, Archangel of Purity.

Support:
Uriel is the only Archangel to "disappear," recalled by God after his quest for purity degraded into a military jihad on the spirits of the world. That seems to fit Kronos' fetish rather well. He was also considered a highly powerful Archangel, which could explain his ability to stand up to the tender ministrations of the Morningstar, as well as the way theother Princes *****foot around him.

What do you all think?
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Old 09-12-2006, 08:22 PM   #2
William
 
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Default Re: Who is that guy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel451
I don't own all the books, I'm afraid, due to the fact that I live in a town similar to a gaming black hole.
Warehouse 23 and e23 are your friends!

Quote:
However, having read through all the books I could get my hands on, I am left with one, all consuming, mind blowing question:

Who or what is Kronos?!
The question could mean a number of things, and in the sense of "What 'Band' is he," the answer is, he's the Band that a Fallen Yves would be. Now, no angel Fell to make him (there isn't any other Yves), and certainly he didn't appear at some point as a demonling and fledge, so that leaves wide open the question of what actually caused his existence. This leads to your speculation:

Quote:
Kronos is actually the reforming Forces from Uriel, Archangel of Purity.
Which is quite nasty, seeing as how Uriel "disappeared" into the Higher Heavens and somebody would have had to invade those precincts and nab the Forces to do the job. Nasty is something Kronos does perfectly well, of course, so, maybe.

A common speculation for Kronos' birth is that Lucifer created him personally, using leftover Forces from Raphael, since Kronos first appeared shortly after Raphael's death. However, whatever caused Kronos to come in to being is definitely a matter canon leaves up to GMs.
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Old 09-13-2006, 10:32 AM   #3
SamAnderson
 
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Default Re: Who is that guy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by William
The question could mean a number of things, and in the sense of "What 'Band' is he," the answer is, he's the Band that a Fallen Yves would be. Now, no angel Fell to make him (there isn't any other Yves)
...in the Lower Heavens. One of the speculations about Yves is that he's one of the type of beings that inhabit the Higher Heavens, right?

What if one of these higher entities Fell?
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Old 09-13-2006, 12:18 PM   #4
Methariel
 
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Default Re: Who is that guy?

Well, it may be a very simple approach, but what if Kronos was Yves' direct opposite?
I'm not sure how to construct this assumption, but I'd not use any leftover Forces from any Archangels, dead or who knows where.

I remember reading that Yves is (a reflection of?) God's Destiny (if you're at once speaking of God as the Symphony and a conscious being - okay, understanding this thought is not easy...) - so why can't Kronos be God's Fate (or a reflection thereof)?

Their causes would fit: Yves wants to bring every Soul to Heaven, while Kronos liked to see everyone in Hell - that distinguishes him from Lucifer, who just likes to "see" everything cloaked in eternal Darkness, or, better said, to destroy everything (including God/the Symphony and probably even himself just to "win" over God). (I know that Lucifer's plans and ends are subject to many a speculation, but let's take this view while exploring the being "Kronos".) It is not in Kronos' interests to see everything blown up/wasting away into Nothingness.

Maybe God created Yves as the first Soul, reflecting all that is Good, Just, Wise and, foremost, Selfless (I think every of these words describe Yves well).
From the beginning, every being had the chance to strive to Light, helped along the way by the hand of the First Soul.

But while humans were given Free Will (ah, another one of them topics!), the odds were definitely on Heaven's side because of Yves. Even Lucifer's Rebellion and Kobals tries to counter Yves weren't evening the odds.

So, for the sake of fairness and the possibility of using ones Free Will absolutely freely, God had to create another Soul - like the first one, but embodying everything that was Wicked, Unjust, Unscrupulous and, foremost, Selfish. And this Soul had the task to show humanity the way to Hell.

Even while Lucifer embodies these attributes more than well, he is not (and does not want to be) the counterpart of Yves. So he can't fit this role.

Maybe this theory also explains why Kronos was so obsessed with Time during the first period of his (known) existence: Yves had time since the Beginning to do his work and so was possessing a vast advantage that Kronos had to even - quite successfully, I have to say.

Ah, another thought comes to my mind, a variation of the first one: Maybe Yves and Kronos were created at the same time, but God held Kronos back somewhere so that Creation had time to evolve before the instrument was applied that should truly test it. God took Yves' memory of Kronos away, but Kronos was conscious of everything - and so "lost time" that much that Time itself was an obsession for him for "some years".

I hope you appreciate these thoughts (and while writing them down I feel how hard it is sometimes to play In Nomine when you're a believing Roman Catholic, but I nevertheless play).

Methariel
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Old 09-13-2006, 05:20 PM   #5
William
 
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Default Re: Who is that guy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Methariel
Well, it may be a very simple approach, but what if Kronos was Yves' direct opposite?
I'm not sure how to construct this assumption, but I'd not use any leftover Forces from any Archangels, dead or who knows where.

I remember reading that Yves is (a reflection of?) God's Destiny (if you're at once speaking of God as the Symphony and a conscious being - okay, understanding this thought is not easy...) - so why can't Kronos be God's Fate (or a reflection thereof)?
That is exactly what he is -- the type of being Yves is, but opposite.
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Old 09-13-2006, 05:28 PM   #6
Fnordianslip
 
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Default Re: Who is that guy?

I also kind of like the idea of Yves and Kronos being the same being. What if he is just the embodiement of duality? His interest isn't really in souls going to heaven or souls going to hell, but the interplay that happens in a soul as it's pulled one way and then the other. Moreover, he's interested in the interplay and duality of creation and destruction, the beginning and the end. Thus he plays both sides, just to see how things turn out. Before man was created with free will, there was no duality. Once there was, he started playing both fields.
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Old 09-13-2006, 06:03 PM   #7
chris the cynic
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnordianslip
I also kind of like the idea of Yves and Kronos being the same being.
If Yves wants every soul to go to heaven, and Kronos wants them all in hell then they are basically both fighting for the same thing, they're fighting to make a soul's journey END. Destiny and Fate result in the same thing, a destination. Moreover they both represent the absolute culmination of the potential of a being in question, if I understood correctly that is (I often don't.) Your destiny is your greatest positive potential, your fate is your greatest negative, so Kronos and Yves both try to get you to fulfill your potential and thus end your journey.

(I've either forgotten or I never knew, what happens if you fulfill your destiny and your fate? That would be the absolute fulfillment of potential, though perhaps the two directions would cancel out.)

Only makes sense that some people would say they are the same, they only differ in the details.
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Old 09-14-2006, 06:12 AM   #8
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Default Re: Who is that guy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris the cynic

(I've either forgotten or I never knew, what happens if you fulfill your destiny and your fate? That would be the absolute fulfillment of potential, though perhaps the two directions would cancel out.)
If I remember correctly if you achieve neither you fate nor your destiny or if you achieve both your fate and your destiny it is the same result- you reincarnate. I do seem to remember something somewhere though about sometimes a soul not having reached either- or having reached both not being strong enough to reincarnate, but I don't remember what it said about those cases or what book any of this was from- it might be one of the ones with several mistakes.
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Old 09-14-2006, 10:53 AM   #9
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Default Re: Who is that guy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by William
That is exactly what he is -- the type of being Yves is, but opposite.
So my ideas aren't that bad...?

Methariel
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Old 09-14-2006, 11:54 AM   #10
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Default Re: Who is that guy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Methariel
So my ideas aren't that bad...?

Methariel
Indeed, they are basically (except for the variant) canon.
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