Reality Check: guns (lmg) and Gunner (mg)

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by Ubiquitous

Well, to be honest I was gonna say; ANYTHING is hip-fired, it's just a question of ST.

I think the skill in LMG should extend to mounted LMGs, and normally uncarriable guns should depose to Gunner: Machine Gun.

I just think there should be a default from guns to gunner. -2 from LMG, -4 for anything else, perhaps, plus familiarity penalties.

[Ubiquitous]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

I just think there should be a default from gunner to guns. -2 from LMG, -4 for anything else, perhaps, plus familiarity penalties.

That'd be easier, but I don't see why you should take a penalty, period, from using a gun you're very familiar with, in a situation where all the problems with it (weight, here) are minimized.

[Green-Neck]

Yes, as an Australian Reservist in the 1980's I fired the M60 both from bipod and tripod with live rounds, and on the move with blanks. I have to say using the tripod just made things easier, rather than harder. However, indirect fire is a whole other skill, which we never practiced, but were lectured on.

EDIT: The tripods we used had their own trigger mechanism seperate to the weapons normal trigger - more a button that was depressed - so you could get right behind the gun. most of my practice was with bipods - I could fire more accuratly using the tripod though.
Because of the scalability with gurps, I think it's a mistake to classify MG's by size, rather it should by by use - from the hip, or fixed.
If my ST 31 Cave Troll wants to run around with a 1-lb autocannon it's really no different to a human using an LMG.

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by Ubiquitous

That'd be easier, but I don't see why you should take a penalty, period, from using a gun you're very familiar with, in a situation where all the problems with it (weight, here) are minimized.

I'd say anything with a stock gets used under guns (LMG) with a familiarity penalty if you've never seen a T&E before and there's one on your tripod. The bigger guns (M2 and Mk-19) are the ones that actually use Gunner, and how you sight them is substantially different than putting cheek to stock.

[Ubiquitous]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

I'd say anything with a stock gets used under guns (LMG) with a familiarity penalty if you've never seen a T&E before and there's one on your tripod. The bigger guns (M2 and Mk-19) are the ones that actually use Gunner, and how you sight them is substantially different than putting cheek to stock.

What I was getting at, I second this.

[Kalzazz]

What happens if Bob the Super Soldier (thanks to cyberware or whatever) can put a stock on a M2 Browning and fire it from the shoulder? Does he use guns or gunner?

In martial arts it indicates a two handed sword used one handed is used with the broadsword skill, so potentially if you are strong enough to pick up and fire a cannon from the shoulder its a rifle (though possibly needing a stock and trigger to be added)

[Green-Neck]

Extrapolating from the tables in HT:
unmounted firing a machinegun without a stock adds 5 to minimum ST for a gun of the same weight and recoil.
i.e.
Colt 1895 [35 lbs, no stock] min ST 17M Skill: Gunner [MG]
Lewis Mk I [32.8 lbs, stock] min ST 12B Skill: Guns [LMG]

Note;
The 'M' means mounted, ie ignore the min. ST if mounted, but if free firing then use min ST 17. Free firing a stockless weapon has obviously been envisaged, but only be VERY strong humans or creatures.
A lewis varient had no stock and could be fired for +1 min ST and +1 Rcl.
Perhaps the +5 min ST overcomes the +1 Rcl?

[Ubiquitous]

Originally Posted by Green-Neck

Perhaps the +5 min ST overcomes the +1 Rcl?

My god, how I've longed for the math needed to see how much ST you need to lower Rcl.

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

What happens if Bob the Super Soldier (thanks to cyberware or whatever) can put a stock on a M2 Browning and fire it from the shoulder? Does he use guns or gunner?

In martial arts it indicates a two handed sword used one handed is used with the broadsword skill, so potentially if you are strong enough to pick up and fire a cannon from the shoulder its a rifle (though possibly needing a stock and trigger to be added)

Sure, if my mecha are shoulder-firing tank cannon sized rifles at each other, I say that's still Guns(Rifle).

[Juca]

Yes, I've recently come to the same problem. One player using an AUG has to use 3 different skills to use the same weapon!

Guns: Rifle to use it as it is or in carbine format
Guns: LMG to use it as the AUG HBar
Guns: SMG to use it in the 9mm configuration