[Gun Fu] Army of One overpowered?

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

There's a strong cinematic tradition for strong heroes wielding big guns casually and with one hand.

QFT.

Remember, when the book was written, the authors sat down and watched movies. To paraphrase Neo, "LOTS of movies."

If you saw it in a film and couldn't do it by the regular rules, typically it got a Perk. One Many Army is such a thing. Sly and Arnold and Jesse can wield stupidly powerful weaponry, either at all (the M134 minigun that was "Old Painless"; even the XM214 5.56x45mm '6-pak' had 90lbs of recoil force) or in one hand (Sly's repeated use of M60s, and Arnolds wielding one in each hand of a railgun that supposedly fired projectiles at the speed of light in Eraser).

To do this, you need to violate RAW. So be it. Perk.

[Agramer]

On 2nd thought he is right.

It should be advantage and not Perk.

[Kaldrin]

In my mind Army of One is simply off-hand weapon training for heavy guns. The gunslinger advantage already gives the other stuff.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

QFT.

Remember, when the book was written, the authors sat down and watched movies. To paraphrase Neo, "LOTS of movies."

If you saw it in a film and couldn't do it by the regular rules, typically it got a Perk. One Many Army is such a thing. Sly and Arnold and Jesse can wield stupidly powerful weaponry, either at all (the M134 minigun that was "Old Painless"; even the XM214 5.56x45mm '6-pak' had 90lbs of recoil force) or in one hand (Sly's repeated use of M60s, and Arnolds wielding one in each hand of a railgun that supposedly fired projectiles at the speed of light in Eraser).

To do this, you need to violate RAW. So be it. Perk.

Only (a) you don't need to violate RAW, there already exist rules for wielding those weapons one-handed, and (b) not all violations of RAW should be perks.

[carllarson]

Originally Posted by Kaldrin

In my mind Army of One is simply off-hand weapon training for heavy guns. The gunslinger advantage already gives the other stuff.

Partially. It allows one-handed use of two-handed heavy weapons, not off-hand use. You'd have to take OHWT to use in the off hand without penalty, and DWA if using 2 at once.

I'd personally adjust the required ST based, as cinematic heroes using this ability would generally have excess ST compared to the base requirement. However, it isn't necessary, as the ST needed is enough to lift the weapon, and the perk implies at least one other form of bracing (hipshooting).

Also, if it seems overpowering, simply change the emphasis related to one-handed vs two-handed use. Frex, it's still a two-handed weapon, so Gunslinger still treats it as such.

[Kromm]

This perk is merely a way to leverage the large buy-in of Gunslinger. If you want to be a Gunslinger and have your thing be big, heavy weapons . . . you can, and you don't have to shovel in too many more points after the 25 you paid for Gunslinger. Using two such weapons effectively still means having OHWT and DWA with your skill of choice, for another 6 points.

And of course you still need the base ST, which is high for the most potent weapons. Not to mention enough ST to lug the things unencumbered. You won't be doing much gun fu with two M60s and ST 10. You need ST 12 to exploit the perk, and then you're carrying 59.2 lbs. of machine guns, which puts you at Medium encumbrance (60% of your Basic Move, -2 to Dodge) even if you're otherwise naked.

We looked at all the stuff you'd actually need to be any good at this and decided, "Yeah, 25 points in Gunslinger is enough of a premium to make it fair to let high ST, a couple of perks, and a maxed-out technique be especially effective in an over-the-top campaign."

Oh, and you can fire a lot of these weapons one-handed with a sufficiently good sling anyway. That might set you back 0 points and $100-$200. And that's not cinematic, especially, just a stupidly heavy and expensive way to outfit a single man.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Molokh

full Acc with one-handed weapons.

Note that this applies to the weapon's basic hands requirement, before special perks or whatever. A heavy weapon with a † (two-handed) mark on ST still counts as a two-handed weapon for Acc purposes. Also, automatic fire never gets full Acc – that's for single shots – so the best candidates for this perk, which are LMGs and GPMGs, aren't especially useful here. Nearly all such weapons have a ! note on RoF, which means that they can't fire single shots.

Originally Posted by Molokh

More importantly, it doesn't compare with Mêlée, where being able to wield a two-hander requires lots of extra ST.

This isn't, in fact, important at all. In melee combat, you're providing the damage yourself, with your own ST. In firearms combat, the gun is providing it. Put 5 points in High TL and get a future weapon, or just bring a big satchel explosive, and you can get as much damage as you want, really. The fact is, GURPS makes huge firearms damage more a $ and LC thing than a points thing; if you can afford the weapon, and the GM isn't restricting you to LC2+ guns, then ST doesn't hold you back much.

[Kaldrin]

Originally Posted by carllarson

Partially. It allows one-handed use of two-handed heavy weapons, not off-hand use. You'd have to take OHWT to use in the off hand without penalty, and DWA if using 2 at once.

My point was that for one point you get a similar effect to the OHWT. I know how the penalties work...

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Also, automatic fire never gets full Acc – that's for single shots...

Hmmm? Really? I thought RoF greater than one is pretty much a side effect, at least for the first round of firing.

Am I conceiving it wrong? Pull out M60 with one hand, Aim, then let loose at RoF10, and I get skill plus Acc plus RoF bonuses, less applicable penalties...

The second turn, you've disrupted your aim, so I lose Acc, but all else still applies.

No?

[Sam Baughn]

It's part of the special rules for gunslinger, not the general rules for aimed fire.