Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-18-2020, 12:05 AM   #1
Tessen
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Default A successful 3 round burst

If I am firing my mp5 in 3 round burst mode at a target 15 metres away and I'm an average shot , as a rule of thumb each time I fire a burst ,how often should I be able to put the 3 rounds accurately into the target?

Is an 70% to 80% success rate too high?
Tessen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2020, 01:07 AM   #2
cdru
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Default Re: A successful 3 round burst

That depends on whether you're aiming and doing All-Out Attack, but most people don't have enough Guns (SMG) skill to hit with all 3 rounds in combat
cdru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2020, 04:07 AM   #3
Tessen
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Default Re: A successful 3 round burst

Ah, so I should expect to get say 2 out of 3 bullets on target about , what 70% of the time?
Tessen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2020, 04:31 AM   #4
Maz
 
Maz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denmark
Default Re: A successful 3 round burst

You can't really compare "target practice accuracy" with "combat accuracy". I am no expert on this at all, but it's been discussed many times on these boards.


Out of combat target practice should assume +1 All out attack. +4 (out of combat bonus). +Acc from aim, and likely up to +2 more for additional aiming.

For an MP5 thats +1+4+4+2 = +11.
15y range is -5.
MP5 has Rcl of 2. So in order to hit with all 3 shots you would need to succeed by 4.

So in order to hit with all 3 rounds, 70% of the time.

You just need a base gun skill of 10.

---

However with that skill in actual combat, it drops to a 25% chance to hit with all 3 rounds. Or something like 18%-10% if the target is Dodging.


I personally have reworked the ROF table, to give +1 to hit already on RoF:3.
Maz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2020, 04:39 AM   #5
OldSam
 
OldSam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Göttingen, Germany
Default Re: A successful 3 round burst

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maz View Post
You can't really compare "target practice accuracy" with "combat accuracy". I am no expert on this at all, but it's been discussed many times on these boards.
This! At first, in nearly all GURPS situations, it is very important to be aware of the circumstances of the situation (see Task Difficulty in BS), this is not an adventuring task (no stress, no opposition etc.!). If this a normal "relaxed" situation for you, typically you would start with modifiers at +5 here. Also things like "braced" could apply (High-Tech) etc.
OldSam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2020, 05:25 AM   #6
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: A successful 3 round burst

Tactical Shooting suggests a +10 for shooting at the shooting range. IIRC, this is +3 for known range, +1 each for no threat to self, no risk to others, and no personal or political stake in the results, and then +4 for sundry other bits, like optimal lighting. All-Out, bracing, and Aiming bonuses would be on top of this, making it rather easy to score all 3 hits at short range.

Of course, a weapon on burst mode only has RoF 3 if you’re only pulling the trigger once - just as semi-automatics have RoF 3, 3-round-burst weapons have RoF 9. Hitting with 6 of 9 shots in a second is markedly harder. If you can brace it, at a shooting range you’re looking at +1 (AOA) +1 (braced) +2 (RoF) +4 (Acc) +2 (3+ seconds of Aim) +10 (shooting range) -5 (15 yards), for a grand total of +15. To hit with 6 shots with a (I assume) Rcl 2 weapon requires MoS 10. Of course, with all the above, getting MoS 10 or better 74% of the time (effective skill 12) only requires a base skill of 7, assuming a man-sized (SM+0) target. Doing it in combat, on the other hand, even with an unaware (or otherwise unable to Dodge) foe, means losing that +10, and thus requires skill 17 to pull off.
__________________
GURPS Overhaul
Varyon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2020, 06:18 AM   #7
Tessen
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Default Re: A successful 3 round burst

So would I be right in assuming if I fire a 3 round burst , the first shot would be the most accurate and best chance of hitting the target while number two bullet and number three bullet would be suffering from increasing recoil?
Tessen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2020, 07:45 AM   #8
OldSam
 
OldSam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Göttingen, Germany
Default Re: A successful 3 round burst

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tessen View Post
So would I be right in assuming if I fire a 3 round burst , the first shot would be the most accurate and best chance of hitting the target while number two bullet and number three bullet would be suffering from increasing recoil?
Yes, basically this is true for all "rapid fire" shots with RCL, as you only need to roll +/- 0 for the first shot, but better for the following shots, the first is "the most accurate" statistically ;) Generally, if you want to look for "the best shot" in a practical situation, I'd go with the biggest margin of success in comparison.

Last edited by OldSam; 10-18-2020 at 07:56 AM.
OldSam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2020, 12:49 PM   #9
Ulzgoroth
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Default Re: A successful 3 round burst

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tessen View Post
So would I be right in assuming if I fire a 3 round burst , the first shot would be the most accurate and best chance of hitting the target while number two bullet and number three bullet would be suffering from increasing recoil?
I'll go to the contrary: A bit, but to a large extent no.

The first shot of the burst does have the best chance of going right where you point it, seeing as it's mechanically identical to a single shot.

But 'right where you point it' isn't necessarily where you actually want it! This is more obvious at higher rates of fire where GURPS gives a bonus to hit over a single shot. But that doesn't mean it doesn't apply here. It's entirely possible that the first shot isn't quite on target, but one of the later ones finds its way to where it's wanted. Don't take the cumulative recoil model that the GURPS RoF rules suggest to heart - fire doesn't get progressively less accurate over the length of a burst. (In general - it might in the case of a wild 'rock and roll' burst from a handheld weapon, but that's more user error than really a result of the recoil.)
__________________
I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident.
Ulzgoroth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2020, 01:38 PM   #10
johndallman
Night Watchman
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
Default Re: A successful 3 round burst

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
But 'right where you point it' isn't necessarily where you actually want it! This is more obvious at higher rates of fire where GURPS gives a bonus to hit over a single shot. But that doesn't mean it doesn't apply here. It's entirely possible that the first shot isn't quite on target, but one of the later ones finds its way to where it's wanted.
You can, for example, start by aiming a little low and let muzzle climb scan the burst across your target.
johndallman is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
guns, hit probability

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.