Improving Unarmed Combat [Martial Arts]

[AlexanderHowl]

One of the issues with unarmed combat in GURPS 4e is that the unarmed combat skills overlap too much. Basically, there is little reason to take Brawling and Boxing if you have Karate and little reason to take Sumo Wrestling and Wrestling if you have Judo. In effect, each of the grappling skills seems like a specialty of an overarching Grappling (VH) skill and each of the striking skills seems like a specialty of an overarching Striking (VH).

In order to both improve and simplify unarmed combat in GURPS 4e, I suggest that we add the Grappling (VH) skill and the Striking (VH) skill. At the (Attribute)-1 level, they would add +1 damage per dice and/or +1 ST (depending on the technique). At the (Attribute) level, they would add +2 damage per dice and/or +2 ST (depending on the technique).

What do you think? Do you use something similar in your games? If so, how does it work for you?

[Refplace]

While they do overlap a lot I like the subtle differences.

[AlexanderHowl]

Which is fine. I am not saying that we need to get rid of the individual skills as specialties, just that they should be reinterpreted as specialties of VH skills.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

One of the issues with unarmed combat in GURPS 4e is that the unarmed combat skills overlap too much. Basically, there is little reason to take Brawling and Boxing if you have Karate and little reason to take Sumo Wrestling and Wrestling if you have Judo.?

I find different things. One of the significant atractions to Judo and Karate is the (probably cinematic) ability to defend unarmed v. armed w/ no penalty. If you've gotten that from one of them there's one less reason to take the other.

Then if you've already taken Karate and Wrestling (like Krav Maga or Savate) to get the +2 ST bonus from Wrestling the only thing left for Judo is the Throw Technique. That makes it a pretty specialized skill.

The +2 you get from Sumo to the Techniques Wrestling doesn't cover is also a little specialized but hey! you're collecting bonuses!

I'm not sure that using Karate to get the damage bonus to Kicks you get from Heavy Boots (and does any PC _not_ wear Heavy Boots?) is entrely kosher. I've never actually seen Tae Kwan Boot to the Head.

So my basic MA Skill Suite is Karate, Wrestling and maybe Sumo. The Throw Technique is only reallya tractive to completists with large cp budgets. After this level you start collecting Styles for specific elements..

[Tyneras]

Personally I'd remove all automatic damage bonuses at high skill and make those into techniques, but that's probably an unpopular position. I'd do the same for all the little perks each current skill has, make them into techniques.

Both Unarmed and melee weapons need the same treatment that guns got in Pyramid #65.

Edit: Also, VH seems excessive. I'd say Average for both.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

So my basic MA Skill Suite is Karate, Wrestling and maybe Sumo. The Throw Technique is only really attractive to completists with large cp budgets. After this level you start collecting Styles for specific elements..

To me, the attractive element of Judo is the Throw, because that lets you put people on the ground really quickly. Then you can kick them readily, even All-Out if you don't have anyone else in range to attack you for a couple of turns. Karate is the best skill for that. Yes, this does take a fair number of points, but so does Karate, Wrestling and Sumo.

[AlexanderHowl]

Since the Pyramid article is highly optional, I think that we can safely ignore it (unless you really want to go down that rabbit particular hole). In my opinion, the priority of GURPS is Hardback > Softback > PDF > Pyramid, and I usually just ignore everything from Pyramid.

[zoncxs]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Since the Pyramid article is highly optional, I think that we can safely ignore it (unless you really want to go down that rabbit particular hole). In my opinion, the priority of GURPS is Hardback > Softback > PDF > Pyramid, and I usually just ignore everything from Pyramid.

Everything is highly optional. GM can overrule everything.

Originally Posted by Tyneras

Personally I'd remove all automatic damage bonuses at high skill and make those into techniques, but that's probably an unpopular position. I'd do the same for all the little perks each current skill has, make them into techniques.

Both Unarmed and melee weapons need the same treatment that guns got in Pyramid #65.

Edit: Also, VH seems excessive. I'd say Average for both.

This is how I handle it in my games. Two skills, both average, everything that is not shared between the original three skills for each is taken as techniques. Certain penalties are kept, like the encumbrance penalty. One top of that I made Fencing skills into a technique.


Here is my house rule for all to use:



retreating gives +3 to defense modified by skill used.

Fencing is now a technique that is bought for each skill. It is a Hard Technique that starts at skill level and can go as high as skill+4. It is used to offset the retreating penalty all skills have. Weapons that have a "U" in the parry stat do not gain the benefit of this technique unless used during a defensive attack or AoD.


Unarmed Strike skill (Average skill):

strikes with body parts
+0 to strike with elbow from front/ -2 for back
-1 to strike with knee
-1 to strike with head
-2 to Kick
-3 to sweep
+0 to strike with fist
-2 to parry kicks
-3 to parry weapons other than thrusting attacks
-2 on retreating parries
Slams
parry two different attacks per turn, one with each hand/arm.
penalty equal to encumbrance level


Unarmed Grapple skill (Average skill):

-2 to parry kicks
-3 to parry weapons other than thrusting attacks
-2 on retreating parries
-3 to sweep
Throws
Submission holds
Takedowns
Clinching/grabbing
Slams
Shoves
Resist takedowns
penalty equal to encumbrance level
parry two different attacks per turn, one with each hand/arm.
hand must be free to use skill for attacks

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

So my basic MA Skill Suite is Karate, Wrestling and maybe Sumo. The Throw Technique is only reallya tractive to completists with large cp budgets.

Mine is Karate, Wrestling, Skill Adaptation (Brawling Dirty Fighting Techniques to Karate), Skill Adaptation (Judo Throwing to Wrestling), Skill Adaptation (Sumo Shoves and Slam bonus to Wrestling).

It gives you pretty much everything from the unarmed skills in two skills.

[talonthehand]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Since the Pyramid article is highly optional, I think that we can safely ignore it (unless you really want to go down that rabbit particular hole). In my opinion, the priority of GURPS is Hardback > Softback > PDF > Pyramid, and I usually just ignore everything from Pyramid.

The priority I go with is GM > Basic > Whatever books the GM added. It works pretty well.