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Old 12-10-2018, 11:49 AM   #11
Armin
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Default Re: [DF] New Race: Swan Maidens (PEACH)

(Sorry for the aside, but could someone please tell me what PEACH means? I've seen it before, but can't figure it out. Thanks.)
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Old 12-10-2018, 12:21 PM   #12
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: [DF] New Race: Swan Maidens (PEACH)

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Sorry for the aside, but could someone please tell me what PEACH means?
The acronym I'm familiar with is "Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly".
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Old 12-10-2018, 01:06 PM   #13
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Default Re: [DF] New Race: Swan Maidens (PEACH)

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Originally Posted by chandley View Post
I came up with Long Neck as a feature before Kromm clarified how long-snakey creatures work. WOK is (and this make sense) that your neck, however long it is, is just part of your body. So buy up your SM and occupy hexes that include your head, neck, and body (but not tail). Move your head into the hex (reach C) of the opponent you want to bite. The rest of your hexes follow along.

This means your bite doesnt have reach per-se
I had always assumed that the bonus you got to reach from high SM or from taking AOA:Long would apply to headbutts and bites like they do other C-range attacks like punches/elbows/knees. When was this first disallowed?
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Old 12-10-2018, 01:15 PM   #14
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Default Re: [DF] New Race: Swan Maidens (PEACH)

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I had always assumed that the bonus you got to reach from high SM or from taking AOA:Long would apply to headbutts and bites like they do other C-range attacks like punches/elbows/knees. When was this first disallowed?
Indeed, so had I. And to an extent it still does if you use the "Combat Write Large" article in Pyramid 3-77, though it is modified, heavily. You can get a reach bonus to your bite if your reach bonus from your SM exceeds half your length, and never for upright monsters (which a swan would count for).

This thread is probably not where I should muse on how to change Long Neck in light of Combat Writ Large, but it definitely needs modification. Still, swans have a long spindly neck true, but their reach with it isnt really all that much. Same hex, basically. Swans are just really not shy at all about getting into your hex and letting you know how they feel about you. Ive gone many many rounds with geese (similar bad attitude), and I greatly prefer the reach advantage of a stick when dealing with the bastards, which I use to imply they are Reach C on the bite and wings... :)

Edit: AOA:Long should still apply to bites though, representing more of a "lunge in, attack, and then back out" maneuver. A "fly-out" in fencing, or the quick snap of a dog going for a heel.
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Old 12-10-2018, 05:03 PM   #15
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Default Re: [DF] New Race: Swan Maidens (PEACH)

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Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
The acronym I'm familiar with is "Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly".
Thank you very much!
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Old 12-11-2018, 10:33 AM   #16
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Default Re: [DF] New Race: Swan Maidens (PEACH)

I guess you could give Swans Stretching (Neck Only, Always On) to give that boost.

Should actual swans count as upright? The way a lot of birds stand looks Semi-Upright. Even those who we see go fully upright like penguins waddle so slowly that the trait would make sense for them.
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Old 12-11-2018, 12:27 PM   #17
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Default Re: [DF] New Race: Swan Maidens (PEACH)

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I guess you could give Swans Stretching (Neck Only, Always On) to give that boost.

Should actual swans count as upright? The way a lot of birds stand looks Semi-Upright. Even those who we see go fully upright like penguins waddle so slowly that the trait would make sense for them.
I think I might reverse myself on this thought. Your swan is SM -1, so a bit of long neck isnt going to get their reach up to out of their hex anyway. It is important for labeling that swans have a neck that is easier to hit than a humans, at least on the swing. So long neck might be the easiest way to show that. The Stretching build is legal but way to awkward, may as well go with the feature.

They are bipeds, if awkward ones. They don't get the advantages of Extra Legs in any movement configuration, and GURPS is all about "what do you get". They move slow, but that is just a matter of buying down their ground move by whatever... though they are not THAT slow...
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Old 12-11-2018, 12:47 PM   #18
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Default Re: [DF] New Race: Swan Maidens (PEACH)

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I think I might reverse myself on this thought. Your swan is SM -1, so a bit of long neck isnt going to get their reach up to out of their hex anyway. It is important for labeling that swans have a neck that is easier to hit than a humans, at least on the swing. So long neck might be the easiest way to show that. The Stretching build is legal but way to awkward, may as well go with the feature.
"Easier to hit with swing than thrust" would be a great feature for a lot of body parts besides necks :)

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Originally Posted by chandley View Post
They are bipeds, if awkward ones. They don't get the advantages of Extra Legs in any movement configuration, and GURPS is all about "what do you get". They move slow, but that is just a matter of buying down their ground move by whatever... though they are not THAT slow...
Semi-Upright at -5 is "a clumsy gait while upright (-40% to Move)" which is the same disadvantage value as buying down your Basic/Ground Move by 1 point...

So I guess that will always be the better deal if you lack forelimbs to use your full move with. I could see maybe some creatures (like some kind of dragon) able to use their wings like that (like with hands, you don't need Extra Legs for that) to move faster than on hind legs, but Swans clearly don't, and if they did it would probably be standard "Crawling" because they couldn't do it faster than just on hind legs like some hypothetical dragon.
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