[3e] how does a pyrokentic PC work? newb here

[gurpsboggled]

me and my friends decided to pick up gurps so we are all learning it for a campaign. we are using 3rd edition.

now ive played DND so i figured this wouldnt be to hard to pick up.

we decided on a psychic campaign. i decided to make a pyrokentic specalized character.

our DM is only limiting us to ONE actual so i went with pyrokensis under psycho

problem. i cant figure out the life of me how my character would do damage in a fight. since all pyrokensis can do is focus on one target that i must maintain vision of. meaning i am locked to just single target damage. which i have no clue how to calculate.

the main questions im asking are.

1. how does this character do anything other then spend x turns focusing on 1 target to do y effect. with no clue how to calculate the damage. other then flat 1d-1 and no way of increasing my actual damage as the campaign goes on.

2. using the heat system. lets say had a base power of 60. this would allow me to heat one 10 inch cube of any material instantly to 3000 degrees. in terms of steel that allows me to instantly liquify roughly 283 pounds of steel.

-problem how would i calculate doing this to someone say in a full suit of armor. which easily weighs only 80 pounds. it seems that my actual damage would only be 1d-1 per turn thus making pyrokensis lousy for DPS when in reality that would kill a human being in a matter of seconds. considering a persons body ignites at about 1400-1500 degrees.

problem- at that same power i can only increase a persons body temperature by 9.9 degrees per second. only allowing me to knock them unconscious at 120 degrees.

4. since i can only use this ability to heat up objects/persons it means i cannot cause explosions/fireballs of any kind. other then to set every hex i choose on fire for 1d-1 per turn.

-problem while at low/medium levels this seems like remarkable damage. later on in the game it will make me useless compared to say someone who took telekinesis. or in the case of one of my friends. whos "ability" the DM okay-ed which would allow him to augment his physical strength/speed with his psi abilities. effectively making a psi bezerker.

5. does this ability not let me manipulate/generate fire at will what so ever? only by using direct heat control to ignite easily flammable substances. at this point as far as i can tell igniting a bunch of paper will do as much burn damage as igniting a person doused in napalm for 1d-1 per turn.

6. by the above methods. i see my character being useful for one thing only... spending 3 entire turns heating up hexes that will simple be moved out of.
knocking humans unconscious after 5-10 seconds. and instantly melting enemy weapons. while only doing 1d-1 damage. when i imagined this character i imagined being able to create infernos of damage. the ability to throw a fireball or if i wanted to control a wave of fire, cause a specified xhexes to spontaneously combust. shielding myself from fire. having fire just radiate from my body over a set area. and the good ol fashion immolation of x person for contious dot damage based on my stats. not flat 1d-1.
am i wrong in these assumptions? because a game that boasts such flexibility. it seems incredible narrow minded to have pyrokensis such a staple psychic ability contained to just. heat up the coffee pop will you George. could you burn this nicely piled pieces of paper for me while your at it?



if this how pyrokensis really is in Gurps my character and seemingly this entire campaign is DOOMED to fail which will ruin the time and excitement we have invested in the game.

[sir_pudding]

Fireballs and whatnot are Burning Attacks (see Innate Attack). Are you using GURPS Powers: Psionic Powers in this campaign?

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Fireballs and whatnot are Burning Attacks (see Innate Attack). Are you using GURPS Powers: Psionic Powers in this campaign?

For emphasis:

Originally Posted by gurpsboggled

we are using 3rd edition.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

For emphasis:

Ah, well I missed that. Throwing fireballs around isn't really an ability associated with the kind of pseudo-scientific psychic powers that Psionic Powers was really about. Supers had a fireball ability, IIRC, and I think it was included in Compendium I.

[Refplace]

Psychic Powers got a serious overhaul in Fourth Editrion.
In Third Edition many of them were way over powered actually.
I no longer have those books so cant quote numbers to you but I suggest you carry objects to heat up.
You can easily set off explosives, boil hinges and do some powerful subtle stuff as well.
Including burn out electronics by causing them to overheat with little energy.
Heat up enemy weapons or objects to disarm or harm them.

[Dalillama]

Originally Posted by gurpsboggled

our DM is only limiting us to ONE actual so i went with pyrokensis under psycho

One actual power? Or one actual skill? In 3e, Psionic powers are the general categories: Psychokinesis, ESP, Telepathy, etc. Each power includes a variant number of skills, of which pyrokinesis is one. If you spent 5 pts.level, then you can buy any of the Psychokinesis skill, while if you spent 3 points/ level, then you bought it as a single-skill power and can only use pyrokinesis. If the latter is the case, then you're out of luck. Psionic in 3e aren't much good for combat monsters generally, and pyrokinesis specifically is a really poor choice. You'd be better off as a telekinetic. The rules for hurting people w/ pyrokinesis are at the top left of p 18 in my copy of Psionics. To summarize, if a body changes temperature by more than 1 degree, the victim makes a roll against HT=3, -2 for every half degree beyond one, suffering 2 fatigue and loss of DX and HT per point the roll fails. Critical failure has worse effects.

[Curmudgeon]

Gurpsboggled
me and my friends decided to pick up gurps so we are all learning it for a campaign. we are using 3rd edition.

[snip]

our DM is only limiting us to ONE actual so i went with pyrokensis under psycho

problem. i cant figure out the life of me how my character would do damage in a fight. since all pyrokensis can do is focus on one target that i must maintain vision of. meaning i am locked to just single target damage. which i have no clue how to calculate.

the main questions im asking are.

1. how does this character do anything other then spend x turns focusing on 1 target to do y effect. with no clue how to calculate the damage. other then flat 1d-1 and no way of increasing my actual damage as the campaign goes on.

2. using the heat system. lets say had a base power of 60. this would allow me to heat one 10 inch cube of any material instantly to 3000 degrees. in terms of steel that allows me to instantly liquify roughly 283 pounds of steel.

-problem how would i calculate doing this to someone say in a full suit of armor. which easily weighs only 80 pounds. it seems that my actual damage would only be 1d-1 per turn thus making pyrokensis lousy for DPS when in reality that would kill a human being in a matter of seconds. considering a persons body ignites at about 1400-1500 degrees.

problem- at that same power i can only increase a persons body temperature by 9.9 degrees per second. only allowing me to knock them unconscious at 120 degrees.

4. since i can only use this ability to heat up objects/persons it means i cannot cause explosions/fireballs of any kind. other then to set every hex i choose on fire for 1d-1 per turn.

-problem while at low/medium levels this seems like remarkable damage. later on in the game it will make me useless compared to say someone who took telekinesis. or in the case of one of my friends. whos "ability" the DM okay-ed which would allow him to augment his physical strength/speed with his psi abilities. effectively making a psi bezerker.

5. does this ability not let me manipulate/generate fire at will what so ever? only by using direct heat control to ignite easily flammable substances. at this point as far as i can tell igniting a bunch of paper will do as much burn damage as igniting a person doused in napalm for 1d-1 per turn.

6. by the above methods. i see my character being useful for one thing only... spending 3 entire turns heating up hexes that will simple be moved out of.
knocking humans unconscious after 5-10 seconds. and instantly melting enemy weapons. while only doing 1d-1 damage. when i imagined this character i imagined being able to create infernos of damage. the ability to throw a fireball or if i wanted to control a wave of fire, cause a specified xhexes to spontaneously combust. shielding myself from fire. having fire just radiate from my body over a set area. and the good ol fashion immolation of x person for contious dot damage based on my stats. not flat 1d-1.
am i wrong in these assumptions? because a game that boasts such flexibility. it seems incredible narrow minded to have pyrokensis such a staple psychic ability contained to just. heat up the coffee pop will you George. could you burn this nicely piled pieces of paper for me while your at it?



if this how pyrokensis really is in Gurps my character and seemingly this entire campaign is DOOMED to fail which will ruin the time and excitement we have invested in the game.

Ninjaed! [A common expression on the forums for someone else beat me to it. ;)]

I will cover a couple of items not mentioned, and maybe add some extra detail to points already made, so here's the full post.

Some of your problems need to be dealt with out of order as they will clarify earlier points. First things first, though. As you may be unfamiliar with the convention for page references, p. Bxx is page xx of the Basic Set, p. Pxx is page xx of Psionics and p. Sxx is page xx of Supers. In this post, all references are to the 3rd edition books.

I think that you’re thinking of a turn as being the same as it is in D&D. A turn in GURPS is 1 second, not the 1 minute melee round or 10 minute turn of D&D, so the basic damage is 1d-1/second which likely will kill your opponent in just a few seconds.

As per p. B129 under Flame “These rules assume the adventures are dealing with flames of “ordinary” heat—at most, a bonfire. The extreme heat produced by a blowtiorch, pyrokinetic attack,” [emphasis mine] “volcano, etc. cannot be resisted by anything except magic or armor specifically made to stop heat.” and as per the sidebar on p. P36 on PK Defenses “If someone is attacked by Pyrokinesis and he (or a friend) has Cryokinesis (or vice versa), it is a valid tactic to use the opposite skill to try to return the temperature to normal. This is not a contest of skill—it’s simply one psi altering a temperature one way and the other trying to reverse it!”

From this, it follows that the 80 pounds of armour offers no protection against your pyrokinetic attack on the person in the armour.

Using the description of Pyrokinesis on p.P18, 1 pound of mass for a living being (whether human or animal, possibly plant as well) is treated as if it is 20 cubic inches for calculating the rate at which it heats. GURPS assumes that the average person masses 150 pounds, so a Power 60 Pyrokinetic will raise an average person’s body temperature at the rate of ([Pow 60 x 50°F/sec/10 cu.in./1 Pow] ÷ [150 pounds x 20 cu.in./lb.]) = (3000°F/sec/10 cu. in. ÷ 3000 cu. in) = 3000/300°F/sec = 10°F/sec for the entire body.

Damage would be treated as if he were spending a whole turn walking in fire at 1d-1 damage or 1d-1/sec. for each second that you use your power on him.

However, Pyrokinetic Attacks on p. P19 adds the following riders on that: After a person’s body reaches 105°F, he must make a HT+5 roll each turn at -1 for each degree over 105°F. For every point the roll is failed by, the victim loses 1 fatigue, or takes HT damage if fatigue is at 0. If a person’s body temperature is raised by at least 1°F in a single turn, he must make a HT+3 roll at -2 per additional 0.5°F. Failure means the victim loses 2 fatigue, 1 DX and 1 HT for every point the roll is failed by. Failure by 10 or more, or critical failure, results in brain damage as well: the victim falls into a coma for 1d days, and loses 1 point of IQ.

So after your first turn of concentrating on the average person, his body temperature has gone from 98.6°F to 108.6°F which requires a roll of {HT+3 – ([108.6-105]/0.5)} = (HT+3 – [3.6/0.5]) = HT+3 -7 = HT-4 which if he has HT 10 is a roll vs. 6 which has only a 9.3% chance of succeeding and does 1d-1 damage to HT whether he makes the roll or not. The next turn, if you kept concentrating, his body temperature is 118.6°F and he is rolling vs. HT-22, which pretty much guarantees that he collapses into a coma at the start of the next turn and he takes another 1d-1 damage. Not bad for 2 seconds work.

In general, you wouldn’t target a particular hex, you’d target the particular person. As long as you can see him, he can be running away from you at eleven yards/sec (a dead sprint) and it might impose a penalty to your Pyrokinesis roll but it doesn’t reduce his accumulated body temperature one iota under the rules. So if you fail a roll one turn and make it the next, you pick up adding to his heat right where you left off.

On the other hand, Psionics is not Supers. It’s geared to emulate science fiction and horror stories rather than superheroes, Charlie from Stephen King’s Firestarter rather than the Human Torch or Pyro. Body of Fire p.S36, Control Fire p.S57, Fireball p.S60, Flame Jet p.S60, Neutralize Fire p.S63 and Wall of Fire p.S65 might be taken if your GM has Supers and if he allows you to take them as Psi abilities (which is up to him).

It’s not clear in your original post if your GM is limiting you to one power or one one-skill power. Pyrokinesis is a one-skill power which is part of the Psychokinesis power. If you are limited to one power but not one one-skill power, Psychokinesis allows you to use Cyrokinesis skill, Levitation skill, PK (Psychokinetic) Shield skill and Telekinesis skill as well as Pyrokinesis skill (all at the same power level) for a cost of 5 points/power level as opposed to Pyrokinesis’ 3 points/power level. You would have to spend at least one-half point to buy each of those skills you wanted to be able to use from the start of the game but you could buy some of those skills after the game starts with earned character points.

Incidentally, you do have to put at least one-half point into buying the Pyrokinesis skill in order to be able to use your Power 60 Pyrokinesis. All Psi skills are (Mental/Hard) so ½ point buys the skill at IQ-3, i.e. if your character’s IQ is 12, ½ point buys his Pyrokinesis to skill 9-, which means he succeeds in using his skill on a 9 or less on a 3d roll or 37.8% of the time, about once in three times. Obviously you’d either want to buy IQ higher which is expensive during character creation and very expensive after character creation or put more points into the skill, which is usually cheaper.

For example, it would cost the IQ 12 character 25 points during character creation or 50 points after to buy his IQ up to 14 which would give him Pyrokinesis skill at 11- for the same ½ point. An IQ 10 character could pay 14 points before or after character creation, not necessarily all at once, and have a Pyrokinesis skill of 15-.

Eidetic Memory (photographic memory in common parlance), can cut skill costs in half or even to ¼ but not for any Psi skill.

Hopefully you feel a little less doomed but yes, it’s probably fair to say that GURPS assumptions are radically different from D&D (depending on the editions being compared).

[gurpsboggled]

to be be clear. we are only allowed 1 psi skill period.

new question how exactly does psi fatigue work.

i focus for x turns then once the ability is actually cast it costs me 1 fatigue?

or is it focus x turns when its cast costs x fatigue.

are there any rolls to midi gate the loss of the fatigue?

also thank you very much for your informative posts. they have been very helpful to us as a group.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by gurpsboggled

am i wrong in these assumptions? because a game that boasts such flexibility. it seems incredible narrow minded to have pyrokensis such a staple psychic ability contained to just. heat up the coffee pop will you George. could you burn this nicely piled pieces of paper for me while your at it?
.

And that is why there was a fourth edition. Sorry dude. That being said, the "knock people out with heat stroke" trick is kind of handy if you have a big enough point budget to do it fast.

[Dalillama]

Originally Posted by gurpsboggled

to be be clear. we are only allowed 1 psi skill period.

Then you're all going to have some serious issues as combat monsters. If this is meant to be a non-stop fighting game with lots of enemies and no other solutions but killing them with psionic powers, then the GM has set rather poor character creation boundaries. Alternately, the GM is planning a different sort of game, and hasn't made that sufficiently clear to you and the rest of the group. Possibly you and the GM should discuss campaign expectations and premises.