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Old 01-29-2010, 09:00 AM   #1
white33
 
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Default Reverse Cosmic.

"Cosmic" is a very flexible enhancement which allows great customization on how to improve traits; My question is:

Is there a limitation modifier, or modifiers that are or can be use to attach new handicaps or constraints and/or remove assets or abilities inherent to a trait not already covered by other specified limitations? Something that would work as a sort of reverse first level "Cosmic".


For example, let's take say, the "Telecommunication: Telesend" trait and imagine some modifications:

"Telesend" allows a character to maintain multiple contacts, let's say i wanted to remove that inherent ability and give it a "One contact at a time only" limitation.
"Telesend" also allows a character to remain functional while using it, let's say i 'd add a "must maintain profound concentration" limitation that would require a character to remain in deep concentration, as if meditating to use it.
"Telesend" cannot normally be modified with the "Send only" limitation for "Telecommunication", however, let's say i wanted a character with the telepathic ability to "speak only" into others minds, and thus remove the ability to listen to others and really mentally converse.(his could be also used for something like "Speaks with animals").
Let's say i wanted to add a limitation of "Requires an IQ roll" from the subject in order for it to be able to understand what the telesender is saying.

Is/are there modifiers(s) that allow doing things like that?
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Old 01-29-2010, 09:14 AM   #2
Vaevictis Asmadi
 
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Default Re: Reverse Cosmic.

Likewise, if one were to try to model Animorphs, does Morph need a Cosmic-type limitation before you can add a limitation that causes you to become permanently trapped in Morph if you stay for two hours?

Or what if I wanted to add Retains Shape and Mass Conservation (limitations from Morph) to Modular Abilities (Physical Only)? Do I need to do something special to port over those limitations? (This is assuming that I've already OK'd the use of exotic advantages like Extra Arms and Flight (Winged) for a super or a non-human race.)

Last edited by Vaevictis Asmadi; 01-29-2010 at 09:18 AM.
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Old 01-29-2010, 09:44 AM   #3
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: Reverse Cosmic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by white33 View Post
"Telesend" allows a character to maintain multiple contacts, let's say i wanted to remove that inherent ability and give it a "One contact at a time only" limitation.
Accessibility.

Quote:
"Telesend" also allows a character to remain functional while using it, let's say i 'd add a "must maintain profound concentration" limitation that would require a character to remain in deep concentration, as if meditating to use it.
Requires Concentrate (P112)

Quote:
"Telesend" cannot normally be modified with the "Send only" limitation for "Telecommunication", however, let's say i wanted a character with the telepathic ability to "speak only" into others minds, and thus remove the ability to listen to others and really mentally converse.(his could be also used for something like "Speaks with animals").
Already part of the power. You need to have Mind Reading to converse.

Quote:
Let's say i wanted to add a limitation of "Requires an IQ roll" from the subject in order for it to be able to understand what the telesender is saying.
I'd invent a new limitation modeled on the normal "Requires an IQ roll" limitation.
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Old 01-29-2010, 09:47 AM   #4
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: Reverse Cosmic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaevictis Asmadi View Post
Likewise, if one were to try to model Animorphs, does Morph need a Cosmic-type limitation before you can add a limitation that causes you to become permanently trapped in Morph if you stay for two hours?
That's Maximum Duration with a different consequence.
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Old 01-29-2010, 09:55 AM   #5
Anaraxes
 
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Default Re: Reverse Cosmic.

Quote:
One contact at a time only limitation.
Accessibility.
Not really. Accessibility is a condition necessary for the ability, as a whole, to operate. It's not clearly RAW to apply that to only part of an single ability (as opposed to, say, a few levels of a levelled ability). And there's no frequency with which this condition occurs. It'd be "Accessibility (Never)".

I have no objection to a catch-all "Limited" if there's no better term, without having to bend Accessibility out of shape. The GM is determining the percentage reduction in either case.
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Old 01-29-2010, 11:09 AM   #6
pawsplay
 
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Default Re: Reverse Cosmic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
I'd invent a new limitation modeled on the normal "Requires an IQ roll" limitation.
Or Sense-based (mental).
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Old 01-29-2010, 12:03 PM   #7
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: Reverse Cosmic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by white33 View Post
Is there a limitation modifier, or modifiers that are or can be use to attach new handicaps or constraints and/or remove assets or abilities inherent to a trait not already covered by other specified limitations?
There's no general limitation, no. However, this is GURPS - we can create new limitations to do what we want, we just need to balance them against existing ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by white33
"Telesend" allows a character to maintain multiple contacts, let's say i wanted to remove that inherent ability and give it a "One contact at a time only" limitation.
I'd call that a -20% limitation. Talking to multiple contacts is handy, but even without that function, you still have a communication power that's a) perfectly silent, b) can send to anyone with a brain, c) is hard to intercept without specialized equipment or powers. And you can still communicate with everyone you could before, just not all at once. Basically, all you're losing is the ability to form a phone bridge for your friends. :-) So, it's definitely worth less than half the utility of the advantage, but it's not a totally minor inconvenience either, because forming multiple contacts and not having to re-roll to contact when you switch between people is pretty handy. Therefore, -20% sounds about right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by white33
"Telesend" also allows a character to remain functional while using it, let's say i 'd add a "must maintain profound concentration" limitation
As David Johnston2 said, this is the Requires Concentration limitation, from Powers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by white33
"Telesend" cannot normally be modified with the "Send only" limitation for "Telecommunication",
That's because Telesend, unlike most of the other Telecommunication advantages, doesn't require any special powers to receive messages from it. Telecommunication: Radio requires you to have the advantage to send or receive messages, which is why Send Only or Receive Only are limitations. But Telesend is essentially "Send Only" all the time, which is why you can't take it as a limitation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by white33
Let's say i wanted to add a limitation of "Requires an IQ roll" from the subject in order for it to be able to understand what the telesender is saying.
The Requires (Attribute) Roll, from Powers, is a good limitation to base this off of, again as David Johnston2 said. However, I'd actually make it a slightly bigger limitation than in the book. The version in Powers assumes you're requiring an IQ roll by you, and it's priced on the assumption that you'll maximize your attribute. The same assumption doesn't hold for this, since it's someone else's attribute that's being rolled. I'd increase the limitation value for Requires IQ Roll by 5% as a result.
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Old 01-29-2010, 12:38 PM   #8
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: Reverse Cosmic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
Not really. Accessibility is a condition necessary for the ability, as a whole, to operate. It's not clearly RAW to apply that to only part of an single ability (as opposed to, say, a few levels of a levelled ability). And there's no frequency with which this condition occurs. It'd be "Accessibility (Never)".

I have no objection to a catch-all "Limited" if there's no better term, without having to bend Accessibility out of shape. The GM is determining the percentage reduction in either case.
What do you mean "part of an ability"? You can't make mental contact with someone when you already have mental contact with someone else. That's all of an ability.
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Old 01-29-2010, 01:18 PM   #9
Captain-Captain
 
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Default Re: Reverse Cosmic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by white33 View Post
"Telesend" cannot normally be modified with the "Send only" limitation for "Telecommunication", however, let's say i wanted a character with the telepathic ability to "speak only" into others minds, and thus remove the ability to listen to others and really mentally converse.(his could be also used for something like "Speaks with animals").
Let's say i wanted to add a limitation of "Requires an IQ roll" from the subject in order for it to be able to understand what the telesender is saying.

Is/are there modifiers(s) that allow doing things like that?
Telesend does not include the ability to listen. That's what Mind Reading is for. That is why you cannot add the Send only limit to Telesend.

"Requires an IQ roll" would be covered by Accessibility.
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Old 02-02-2010, 11:39 AM   #10
white33
 
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Default Re: Reverse Cosmic.

Well... I was only using "Telesend" as an example trait, i didn't expect to get so much on the subject. What i really wanted to know was if there existed an in RAW generic limitation version of "Cosmic", sadly the answer seems to be a definite no; Pity, there should be.
Since so many people replied on "Telesend", let me address it:

"No multiple contacts": Probably around a -20% Limitation as suggested, though i would not know if there is an in RAW Limitation that can do this or if it would have to be a custom one. However, if someone could quantify "Not while already in contact with someone", or "Not while ability is already in use" as a limitation, this could be modeled with "Accessibility".

"Must maintain profound concentration": Yes, this is the -15% "Requires concentration"

"Speak only": Oops... Sorry, i was assuming "Telesend" established a two-way mental chat; my bad... Still, i'm curious on how this would be done for an inherently two way communication like "Speaks with animals".

"Requires IQ roll": Much like reversed "Sense based" this should just be an unadjusted reversed "Requires IQ roll", -10%.
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