05-27-2015, 08:22 AM | #1 |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Only Kind of Unkillable
I've been reviewing a DF racial template I've been working on, and have decided the variant of Unkillable 2 I have isn't really what I want.
To skip a long story, what I think will work best would actually be a variant of Unkillable 1. Instead of it outright preventing death until -10xHP, however, it would still allow the character to be killed normally, but so long as he isn't dropped to -10xHP (total destruction) he'll recover from damage normally (as for Unkillable 2), eventually coming back to life. I'm thinking somewhere around a -50% Limitation on Unkillable might be appropriate, putting the trait at [25] (I'll probably use this as the base cost for the trait for modifying it further). Does this sound about right? |
05-27-2015, 08:33 AM | #2 | |
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Re: Only Kind of Unkillable
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You have to make what are effectively a few more Consciousness rolls but stil keeping that important "-10xHP" thing essentially unchanged. I'd make it something like a -10 or 20% rather than -50%.
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Fred Brackin |
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05-27-2015, 09:30 AM | #3 | |
Hero of Democracy
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
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Re: Only Kind of Unkillable
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05-27-2015, 09:36 AM | #4 |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Only Kind of Unkillable
I see what you're getting at, but I should note that, for characters with Unkillable 2 or 3, the general consensus (according to PK) was somewhere around -20%, or between [-20] (Unkillable 2) and [-30] (Unkillable 3), to not get the benefit of ignoring death until at -10xHP. I split the difference, going with [-25] (thus -50%) instead.
There are a lot of advantages to not dieing that Unkillable 1 benefits from but my suggested trait doesn't. With high HT and/or the cheap Hard to Subdue, you can stay in the fight a good deal longer. Failing that, you only need to make consciousness rolls if making strenuous actions, so you can potentially get yourself to a safer location (decreasing the chance of someone getting you to -10xHP) and help direct the battle. Once combat is over, a character with Unkillable 1 who passed out can be woken up and then can move around under his own power, while one who "died" with my suggested trait will have to be carried/dragged around until he revives, which may take some time. In a setting with healing magic, a character with Unkillable 1 can be healed normally, while one with my trait should have to heal on its own (or get a raise dead style spell). |
05-27-2015, 11:46 AM | #5 |
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Re: Only Kind of Unkillable
I'd have to discuss the mechanics of "being dead, but not permanently". If you go into a coma like state there's no reason healing shouldn't work on you normally. Even if you heal "naturally" at -50% you're getting few points you can spend towards Regeneration.
The part that I would worry about is that at sat 2 HP/day "normal" healing, if you revive at positive HP (like UK2/3), your time dead (presuming you die at -HT or -1.5 x HT) will be over a week - more than enough time to be buried or cremated. If your secret is known, enemies can hack you to -10xHT and allies will bear the burden of rescuing your corpse. Why not just go with Hard to Kill (enough to get to 18 or so) plus Luck (re-roll death checks only -80%)? You can also add +HP for extended HP checks (-80% only to increase your death check threshold). It's probably in the ballpark for the cost you desire with a similar effect. |
05-27-2015, 01:38 PM | #6 | |||
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Only Kind of Unkillable
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Regeneration is a potential issue, but that trait is expensive enough it probably won't be too much of an issue. The [25] you're saving is enough to buy Regular Regeneration, which will take at least 10 hours to get you back on your feet, as opposed to the (IIRC) 2 hours of falling unconscious with Unkillable 1 (less if someone wakes you up). A character with a higher level of Regeneration will see more benefits, which may well negate a good deal of the drawback. It may be appropriate to reduce the discount for characters with Fast and faster Regeneration, or for the GM to outright disallow such Regeneration from working while dead (I believe Only While "Dead" is canonically -20%, so Not While "Dead" would arguably also be -20%; alternatively, it may be appropriate to have Regeneration not work while "dead" by default, with Also While "Dead" being worth +20% or so). Quote:
For what it's worth, I actually intend to run things a little more leniently than Unkillable 2 and 3 do - rather than reviving once you have positive HP, you get an HT roll each time you recover beyond a death threshold (starting with the threshold you actually died at; if you die at -1xHP, the earliest you'll revive is just above -1xHP) as well as when you enter positive territory, and you automatically revive once you're back at full HP. However, I intend to figure out the cost of this trait ignoring that, as I see it as a combination of Feature and GM Fiat. Quote:
That said, going with your suggestion, Hard to Kill 8 [16] + Luck (Death Checks Only -80%) [3] + Increased Death Threshold [20] ends up costing [39], for a -22% (round down to -20%) reduction to the price of Unkillable. Of course, that's essentially just recreating Unkillable 1 in a slightly different form, and has no real bearing on the trait I'm going after. |
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05-27-2015, 02:31 PM | #7 | |
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Re: Only Kind of Unkillable
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Say -30% off of Unkillable 1... perhaps -40% tops. |
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05-27-2015, 02:48 PM | #8 | ||
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Only Kind of Unkillable
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*Further look at the rules reveals that an unconscious character at -1xHP and lower is in worse shape than I anticipated, as they only get one HT roll to wake up at 12 hours and require assistance to wake up beyond that. As I think that negates a lot of what Unkillable 1 does for a character, I'd treat a character with Unkillable 1 as only being below 0 HP for purposes of waking up, even if he's at -9xHP. If I allowed the trait you're suggesting, I wouldn't extend the same benefit to it. Quote:
While I'm willing to accept that I'm off with my -50% estimate, I'm afraid I'll need more evidence than "We can build the baseline trait you're modifying for 80% or lower of its normal cost," which has no real bearing on the discussion at hand. |
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05-27-2015, 02:58 PM | #9 | ||||
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Re: Only Kind of Unkillable
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Also, there's big but subtle benefit in Hard to Kill that you are easily mistaken for dead, so your opponents won't have a reason to finish the job. As an "I'll wait up in a bit surprise if they don't realize I'm not dead" that's an advantage on its own. Quote:
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05-27-2015, 03:08 PM | #10 | ||
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Only Kind of Unkillable
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My apologies if I wasn't clear. I want a trait where a character is treated normally with regards to death checks (has to make them at each multiple of -1xHP, automatically dies at -5xHP), but so long as they don't drop to -10xHP they'll recover normally, as though they were alive, and will come back to life at positive HP, much like with Unkillable 2. |
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