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Old 11-10-2019, 06:02 PM   #31
MrFix
 
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Default Re: TL 9 Police Tactics

I really hate to remind people that most first world Police do NOT have mechanized weaponry, motorized weaponry, machine guns or RPGs.

Their main anti-armor/anti-vehicle/anti-air weapon is a high caliber sniper rifle. If at TL8 Police doesnt have an M2 Bradley with 20mm cannon and TOW missiles, it wont have a TL9 equivalent.
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Old 11-10-2019, 06:19 PM   #32
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Default Re: TL 9 Police Tactics

There are plenty of police forces in the developing world that have military equipment, and many in the developed world, so I am not quite sure which police forces you are talking about. Anyway, when you are talking about the future, social change, positive or negative, is inevitable. While people might be aging, that only means that criminals are more digital than physical, and there is nothing preventing a hacker from grabbing control of a drone bulldozer and laying waste to downtown while the rest of their team goes after the real target.

With social manipulation through social media and the Internet, there will likely be more riots as white supremists, Neo-Nazis, and other bigots attempt to change society through violence. With the job displacement trends that seem to come from digital automation, they will have plenty of disaffected unemployed people who will join in the violence, if nothing else than to commit violent felonies with impunity. In order to protect the innocent, police forces will have to come down hard on the rioters, as the rioters will otherwise victimize anyone they get their hands on.

In order to come down hard on rioterd without mass casualties, you need military equipment that can deliver lots of nonlethal munitions at a distance. Whether it is a 100mm TML with Sleep gas or a 25mm ETC Auto cannon delivering Tangle rounds, developed nations will use military grade weapons to incapacitate rather than kill rioters. When people are asleep or restrained, then the patrol officers can take them to the precinct. Civilian weapons are not capable of nonlethally taking out mass number of rioters.
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Old 11-10-2019, 06:22 PM   #33
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Default Re: TL 9 Police Tactics

United States Police armored vehicles are fully unarmed, they do not have access to machine guns and most of their rifles are semi-auto only. They do not have armed drones either.

UK Policemen go UNARMED, their SWAT unit is mostly equipped with 5.56 rifles.

Russian Police currently has no SWAT unit and all of them are armed with 9mm firearms.

You're confusing paramilitary and actual military forces with Police.

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
With social manipulation through social media and the Internet, there will likely be more riots as white supremists, Neo-Nazis, and other bigots attempt to change society through violence. With the job displacement trends that seem to come from digital automation, they will have plenty of disaffected unemployed people who will join in the violence, if nothing else than to commit violent felonies with impunity. In order to protect the innocent, police forces will have to come down hard on the rioters, as the rioters will otherwise victimize anyone they get their hands on.

In order to come down hard on rioterd without mass casualties, you need military equipment that can deliver lots of nonlethal munitions at a distance. Whether it is a 100mm TML with Sleep gas or a 25mm ETC Auto cannon delivering Tangle rounds, developed nations will use military grade weapons to incapacitate rather than kill rioters. When people are asleep or restrained, then the patrol officers can take them to the precinct. Civilian weapons are not capable of nonlethally taking out mass number of rioters.
Please keep your political opinions and violent fantasies of putting people down hard out of this thread, they're not helpful to the discussion and are outright illogical.
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Old 11-10-2019, 06:29 PM   #34
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Default Re: TL 9 Police Tactics

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
There are plenty of police forces in the developing world that have military equipment, and many in the developed world, so I am not quite sure which police forces you are talking about.
It seems to me that mostly American police forces are under discussion. I don't see any of this applying to Nordic police forces, or indeed most of Europe with the possible exception of the Carabineri and Gendarmes.
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Old 11-10-2019, 06:32 PM   #35
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Default Re: TL 9 Police Tactics

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It seems to me that mostly American police forces are under discussion. I don't see any of this applying to Nordic police forces, or indeed most of Europe with the possible exception of the Carabineri and Gendarmes.
Even American Police doesnt allow themselves an armed APC. Most settle on for-Police designs like Bearcats or surplus armored trucks. They often forbid full auto, don't field machine guns or lethal grenade launchers. 37mm is explicitly for Police to launch gas and such, and has no actual explosive loads AFAIK.

US SWAT does not use lethal grenades either. Their militarization starts and ends with body armor, AR-15 rifles and combat tactics.
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Old 11-10-2019, 06:39 PM   #36
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Default Re: TL 9 Police Tactics

The militarization of US police forces (and many other police forces) is a well documented phenomena by criminal justice scholars in the USA. American police forces use APCs, assault rifles, submachine guns, and sniper rifles. While the UK does not have armed police, they do have the most sophisticated panopticon in the developed world, so they do not necessarily need firearms on the street when they can just track criminals right back home and then send in armed police.
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Old 11-10-2019, 06:41 PM   #37
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Default Re: TL 9 Police Tactics

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
The militarization of US police forces (and many other police forces) is a well documented phenomena by criminal justice scholars in the USA. American police forces use APCs, assault rifles, submachine guns, and sniper rifles. While the UK does not have armed police, they do have the most sophisticated panopticon in the developed world, so they do not necessarily need firearms on the street when they can just track criminals right back home and then send in armed police.
APCs are without weapons - literally cars with armor on.
Assault Rifles, Submchine Guns and Sniper Rifles are not 'military weapons', a civilian in US can own them. These are called "Small Arms" and they're the main weapons of TL8.
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Old 11-10-2019, 06:42 PM   #38
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Default Re: TL 9 Police Tactics

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Originally Posted by Žorkell View Post
It seems to me that mostly American police forces are under discussion. I don't see any of this applying to Nordic police forces, or indeed most of Europe with the possible exception of the Carabineri and Gendarmes.
One peculiarity of US police is that we have rules against using regular military forces for domestic operations, and thus situations that in other countries would by handled by military special forces are instead handled by specialized police forces (the national guard can be used for domestic operations, but doesn't really have special forces, though they are sometimes used for riot control).

As far as militarization of the police... sure, our police are more heavily armed than in many countries. Now compare them to the SAS.
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Old 11-10-2019, 06:47 PM   #39
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Default Re: TL 9 Police Tactics

There is no monolithic American police ammunition policy, ammunition policy varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction and from state to state. There is nothing terribly preventing police departments from using fully operational military weapons except for civil liability concerns. APCs can easily have weapons bolted to them and grenade launchers that launch tear gas grenades can also launch HEC grenades.
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Old 11-10-2019, 06:52 PM   #40
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Default Re: TL 9 Police Tactics

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There is no monolithic American police ammunition policy, ammunition policy varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction and from state to state. There is nothing terribly preventing police departments from using fully operational military weapons except for civil liability concerns. APCs can easily have weapons bolted to them and grenade launchers that launch tear gas grenades can also launch HEC grenades.
Despite that, there's almost no outliers to the description I gave because none of these items assist in Police work, but cost money to purchase, maintain and invite legal trouble.
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