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Old 11-10-2019, 09:32 AM   #21
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: TL 9 Police Tactics

We do not have hard AI or real time virtuality (VR games are pre-programmed, not real time). Robot cars are emergent (+1 TL is possible under invention rules for 3xcost), we do not have space elevators, and we do not have manned interplanetary space travel. The weapons and armor are emergent (3xcost) or nonexistent. The energy technology is either emergent (3Ścost) or, with deuterium-hydrogen fusion, non-existent (the conspiracy is not in the suppression but in not investing sufficient money in the research). The biotechnology is either emergent (3Ścost) or nonexistent.

So, we are late TL8 with a few emergent TL9 technologies (though most are nonexistent). We might break TL9 by 2030, there is some rather interesting work in clean meat that is clearly TL9, and it is on track for maturity in 2030. The same applies to many of the other technologies (artificial wombs seem to be much more complicated than originally envisioned though, and it might just be easier to genetically engineer cows to carry human fetuses to term).
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Old 11-10-2019, 09:38 AM   #22
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Default Re: TL 9 Police Tactics

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
We do not have hard AI or real time virtuality (VR games are pre-programmed, not real time). Robot cars are emergent (+1 TL is possible under invention rules for 3xcost), we do not have space elevators, and we do not have manned interplanetary space travel. The weapons and armor are emergent (3xcost) or nonexistent. The energy technology is either emergent (3Ścost) or, with deuterium-hydrogen fusion, non-existent (the conspiracy is not in the suppression but in not investing sufficient money in the research). The biotechnology is either emergent (3Ścost) or nonexistent.

So, we are late TL8 with a few emergent TL9 technologies (though most are nonexistent). We might break TL9 by 2030, there is some rather interesting work in clean meat that is clearly TL9, and it is on track for maturity in 2030. The same applies to many of the other technologies (artificial wombs seem to be much more complicated than originally envisioned though, and it might just be easier to genetically engineer cows to carry human fetuses to term).
TLs work in a way that means a key tech appears and it's the start of TL. A TL does NOT need to have all of it's technology at the start.

For example, TL5 starts with Flintlock firearms and ends with Cartridge revolvers and self-loaders.

That's why I keep saying Early TL9. Naturally we dont have space elevator, but we do have other stuff, either for sale or in prototypes.

On topic of weapons and armor, most Ultra-Tech equipment that's listed as TL9 exists today or is feasable today. Some of the UT items are just not useful to exist IRL. And yes, they aren't x3 of the cost.

Quote:
real time virtuality (VR games are pre-programmed, not real time)
I Honestly have no clue what you understand by real time, but this is what a business-oriented VR provider has to say about their product:

Quote:
Virtual reality (VR) uses a simulator to immerse users in a real-time 3D virtual world, creating a truly unique experience. Potential customers have the opportunity to interact with your products as if they were actually present. Showcase your innovations (whether industrial or medical), teach clients to handle, install or maintain your products, etc.
This is VR as it appears in Ultra-Tech too.
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Last edited by MrFix; 11-10-2019 at 09:50 AM.
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Old 11-10-2019, 12:21 PM   #23
Jack Sawyer
 
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Default Re: TL 9 Police Tactics

AI seems like it would be one of the bigger benefits to police. Apart from analysis and coordination efforts (automating alot of things like emergency response) you might get a single AI 'partner' for a single patrolmen or pair of patrolmen. The AI would help with the aformentioned analysis/coordination, help operate sensors, drones and robots that might assist the officers, etc. They might become especially relevant with extensive surveillance like khorboth described.

That said, AI and facial recognition aren't yet perfect so I think this would be 'what the individual wants' as far as reliable/unreliable and could be adjusted to suit any narrative near-future. But even without some perfect or god AI (some 'dumb AI' which is still controlled/directed by humans) would be a huge benefit as would automation in terms of information and response, and that will greatly assist Law Enforcement in exercising their duties.

I'd also expect them to act as a restraint on police abusing their power or corruption (the AI might be in control of the body cameras and other surveillance/observation equipment for one thing) and act to prevent officer abuse as necessary (and report it.)

I don't see power armor as much of a big deal for several reasons. First, real life exoskeletons are nothing like sci fi power armor (Halo, Warhammer 40,000) for one thing. Abilities are generally more modest (superhuman abilities mean more chance for injuring the people wearing them if they malfunction) and exoskeletons IRL are geared towards minimizing injury, improved weight carrying, and minimizing strain/fatigue. THose can be helpful for factory workers or soldiers (who might be expected to carry heavy loads and/or lift heavy equipment) but its not necessarily helpful for a police officer.

If you have some police officers facing against criminals who might have repurposed exoskeletons (industrial ones say, thinking like Aliens) you probably would do as Anthony says and have a robot available to engage it. Robots would also be used for EoD (already are) and door breaching (more expendable) and other hazardous situations that may involve weapons. Indeed, your SWAT might be all military/combat robots on the 'sharp end' with humans who guide/control and follow on to provide the human aspects of law enforcement.

That doesn't mean officers wouldn't carry some kind of body armor or heavier weapons (shotguns, carbines, etc.) but I expect they would be kept in the vehicle until needed (meaning they're likely to be relatively compact (especially if the vehicle is carrying one or more drones, general-purpose robot assistants, etc.)

Sidearms are still going to remain pistols, although I could see them carrying an 'energy' sidearm (electrotaser perhaps with a laser weapon 'lethal' setting if tech assumptions permit) and a slugthrower (for targets the energy weapon might not help with) I expect that the uniform would also act as a form of soft, flexible body armor itself (military 'combat shirts' to protect against fragments are already a thing, so something that protects against pistol fire seems reasonable) In keeping in line with khorboth's good points about visibility and community presence, you would want the cops to not look lik soldiers. Lean towards friendly, approachable, trust. Which is why you would have humans and not robots, of course.
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Old 11-10-2019, 01:22 PM   #24
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: TL 9 Police Tactics

AIs are a bit primitive at TL9 though. A Complexity 7 Non-Volitional AI is IQ 10 and requires a Mainframe (400 lbs and $100,000), which is a bit large for a partner.
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Old 11-10-2019, 01:46 PM   #25
MrFix
 
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Default Re: TL 9 Police Tactics

At TL9, the AI is indeed inappropriate as full fledged Police Officer. At best an assistant, not even partner - too much physical work. Half-Life 2-style Dispatcher is a possibility, but there's a loss of human psychological skills on 911 line involved.

An Industrial exoskeleton has no DR, and any shielding jury-rigged on it wont be sufficient, so SWAT officers can easily contain such exoskeleton via Assault Carbine or Storm Carbine with standard or AP+ ammo.

Light Exoskeleton will find use in Riot Police, who use melee weapons and wrestle with protestors. They can strike at lower ST than listed in UT to prevent harm, or go all out in emergency.
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Old 11-10-2019, 02:46 PM   #26
Jack Sawyer
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: TL 9 Police Tactics

Partner might not be the best word. Assistant is better, which is what I was thinking of. It's going to help the flesh and blood cops, not replace them. At most its going to have pre-arranged responses/rules it enforces on its own should certain criteria be crossed (officers need assistance, etc.) In the case of drones you might also have other humans on hand to operate them remotely (who get alerted by the AI) in an emergency, I suppose.
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Old 11-10-2019, 03:12 PM   #27
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: TL 9 Police Tactics

When would it be appropriate for TL9 police to use combat walkers? I would personally invest in marine combat walkers due to the two environment usability. While you could not take a marine combat walker into most buildings (it is just too large), it would be great for riot control (and could do marine rescue). They could also function as robot/vehicle control, as they could carry weapons large enough to take down the largest civilian vehicles.

When it comes to riot control, a 10-person squad of police marine combat walkers would probably stop the majority of riots without much issues, especially if they were supported by three 10-person squads of normal police. Since Bad Grip does not impact ranged weapon use (only melee weapon use), they could carry ETC Assault Cannons with 25 mm Tangler rounds, allowing a 10-person squad to tangle dozens of rioters per second by spraying into a crowd. Or they could sport Tactical MAD or Tactical Nauseators if they just wanted to disperse the crowd.

When it comes to robot/vehicle control, they could equip the ETC Assault Cannons with 25 mm Sharpcharged rounds. With a 10-person squad so equipped, any civilian robot/vehicle would go down in a couple of turns. They would probably want to carry and ETC Minigum with APDS rounds as a sidearm, as they could use it one-handed without difficulty.
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Old 11-10-2019, 03:16 PM   #28
Anthony
 
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Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: TL 9 Police Tactics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer View Post
If you have some police officers facing against criminals who might have repurposed exoskeletons (industrial ones say, thinking like Aliens) you probably would do as Anthony says and have a robot available to engage it.
Eh, you resolve an industrial exoskeleton by shooting it. Armor is defensive, you want to use it when you expect to be shot at (or otherwise attacked), which in a situation where you can call up SWAT in the first place (as opposed to a spontaneous shootout) is usually a barricaded suspect and you're interested in going through a door, or possibly window, wall, or ceiling. In that situation it's nice to have whatever takes point be durable and expendable, and bots match both criteria.
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Old 11-10-2019, 04:47 PM   #29
dcarson
 
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Default Re: TL 9 Police Tactics

Most first world countries have an ageing population from birth rate being close or below replacement levels. Patrol cop is a young game, it is one of the occupations that full retirement at 30 years service is normal. So robot and drone aids to deal with a shortage of personnel will probably be needed.

You would also have a ageing population of criminals which doesn't make them honest but does make them less violent since they are old enough to realize they can get hurt.
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Old 11-10-2019, 05:38 PM   #30
Rupert
 
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Default Re: TL 9 Police Tactics

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
When would it be appropriate for TL9 police to use combat walkers?
As far as I'm concerned, combat walkers are military equipment, so the answer to "when should police use walkers" is "never". Other people may be more tolerant of militarised police and find policing uses for them, though I maintain that when the police need hardware like this (rather than just have it because they got it cheap as military surplus) you've got a civil war on your hands, not a policing problem.

Quote:
When it comes to robot/vehicle control, they could equip the ETC Assault Cannons with 25 mm Sharpcharged rounds. With a 10-person squad so equipped, any civilian robot/vehicle would go down in a couple of turns. They would probably want to carry and ETC Minigum with APDS rounds as a sidearm, as they could use it one-handed without difficulty.
That's a lot of hardware going downrange, much of which will miss. A couple of dudes with an RPG will do about as well, too (seeing as we're way into military scale weapons here).
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