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Old 11-09-2019, 08:57 AM   #61
naloth
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Re: Changes to Combat Reflexes [Basic]

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
But they don't have the same meaning. In a superhero movie, it's usually because the characters have powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men. In a spy movie, they ARE mortal men, and their abilities are understood to be no more than what mortal man can achieve with training and practice—but when it helps the narrative, the extent of those abilities is understood optimistically.
That's really splitting hairs since "mortal men" can and do achieve super powers in most movies and a crash course with Arrow can make a DA better than years of police or military training. If mundane is anything that fits the genre conventions, then there's not a whole lot of fantastic left. Realism is what should be achievable without breaking the laws of physics or surpassing what we know can be done. Once you get into cinematic or fantastic you can justify anything.
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Old 11-09-2019, 09:53 AM   #62
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Default Re: Changes to Combat Reflexes [Basic]

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
But they don't have the same meaning. In a superhero movie, it's usually because the characters have powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men. In a spy movie, they ARE mortal men, and their abilities are understood to be no more than what mortal man can achieve with training and practice—but when it helps the narrative, the extent of those abilities is understood optimistically.
To be fair, the superhero genre is typically both fantastic and cinematic. Exceptions are rare, but do exist - Wildbow's Worm and sequel Ward are fantastic and mostly realistic rather than cinematic.

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
Goliath is fantastic: He's something like nine feet tall, he's incredibly strong, he wields a spear that no normal man could lift. But David is not fantastic. He's a normal human being, not some sort of weird hybrid. He's just really, really good with his sling, perhaps cinematically good.
I'd say it's the other way around, honestly. In the Bible, Goliath is a cinematic interpretation of a human with gigantism*, while David is fantastic as he is divinely empowered. Narratively, the contrast between the two - Goliath the incredibly strong giant, David the small shepherd boy - is purposeful, and meant to show that even someone who should be at a massive disadvantage can have an overwhelming victory with the assistance of God.

*There's some possibility Goliath was meant to be a descendant of the nephilim, which arguably would have made him fantastic as well.
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Old 11-09-2019, 10:14 AM   #63
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Default Re: Changes to Combat Reflexes [Basic]

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There's some possibility Goliath was meant to be a descendant of the nephilim, which arguably would have made him fantastic as well.
I take Goliath in that way, and that makes him clearly fantastic. His being cinematic or epic seems less certain.
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Old 11-09-2019, 12:47 PM   #64
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Default Re: Changes to Combat Reflexes [Basic]

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Originally Posted by Tomsdad View Post
yep basically all of this




There's been a lot of work on OODA loops and trained response to certain stimulai

I wouldn't go quite so far as to say CR is no ability possessed by humans, but a slightly more realistic version of it might be having it aspected to the situation you trained and have experience in.

Put it this way it's reasonable to have a well trained and/or experienced fighter pilot to have the GURPS equivalent of CR when piloting their plane in combat, and the same is true for a trained/experienced Infantryman fighting on the ground. But you plonk a fighter pilot in the middle of Fallujah on a hot Saturday night, or an infantry man (who happens to be able to fly) in a F14 patrol hit by an dog fight they likely won't get the same benefits.

The thing is both of those people are still likely to be better than Joe Random off the street would be in either situation even in the situation they didn't have specific experience/training in!

So if you really wanted to go detailed maybe have CR operate at full value in your aspected context and half value in all others.

It's also not just combat, anyone who trains/experiences dangerous/stressful/quickly developing situations could potentially qualify in that context. An experienced mountain climber will observe–orient–decide–act in a changing mountain situation better than most. But they may not get the full benefit of that if someone's trying to ambush them coming home from the pub!


On top fo this when trying to fit this all this into scale of real world observations it not just having CR and not having CR, but also combat paralysis

i.e we don't all fit somewhere on:

"having CR - not having CR",

but:

"having CR - not having CR or CP - having CP"


And on top of that in GURPS terms there are other stats and advantages that can effect how likely you are to react quickly to a surprise or be able dodge etc which means it's hard to categorically test if someone has to have had CR to have reacted in a certain way in a certain situation.


But this is a level of detail possibly to far for a generic advantage that in general is designed to mark out people who likely get into more combat than most people do in real life and do better at "not dying in combat" than the average person on the street.
What would you think to changing the base roll from IQ, to "IQ or relevant skill* (Skill is shifted to IQ)".

* as determined by the GM for the circumstances.

So for the Mountaineer, that would be IQ or IQ based Survival: Mountain.

Actually why IQ instead of PER? Other than it being a legacy of previous editions.
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Old 11-11-2019, 02:05 PM   #65
Plane
 
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Default Re: Changes to Combat Reflexes [Basic]

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Originally Posted by Celjabba View Post
It is a cosmetic change, doesn't really modify anything.
One place I can see it modifying is the "Embody" ritual since the max character points you can gain are based on a % of your existing character points, so basically the more "free" traits characters have, the stronger they can be at lower levels yet have a lower ceiling for Embody-enhancement should they become a spirit.

Also maybe something involving the cost of Allies?
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