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Old 09-30-2019, 09:35 PM   #21
Varyon
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Default Re: [DF] How Many Abilities Should A Race Get?

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Originally Posted by Hide View Post
I don’t get your point on that one.

The disadvantage I meant was “draining”, with a variation to make it similar to “hemophilia”.

A succubus does not need to hurt or seduce somebody to make leech (vampiric touch) work; it only needs contact (e.g. a grapple).

Also the succubus does not need to seduce people to receive a bodily fluid to start healing; the creature can simply receive a “donation” from a party member (blood, sperm, saliva, etc.) to start healing or if in battle, taste the blood of enemies to start healing.
I misinterpreted a few things about your post - I thought you meant Unhealing, that the leech would require significantly more than a touch, and that the bodily fluids would be specifically associated with sex, not just literally any bodily fluid. Now that you’ve corrected me, I see few problems with your suggestion.
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Old 10-01-2019, 12:34 AM   #22
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Default Re: [DF] How Many Abilities Should A Race Get?

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Originally Posted by Sorenant View Post
I looked up and and these posts seems to be the most relevant ones: 1 2 3 4
As I understand, Androgynous gives a flat reaction bonus due to positive sexual appearance from both sexes but is limited to reaction from your own race or those similar to it, the range of people affected doesn't change and while you get reduced reaction from opposite sex, you also get better reaction from those of same sex, that's why it's a +0% modifier.
Universal works similarly, it's also a flat bonus from any sex but it drastically increases the range of people affected. An Androgynous person might seduce men and women alike, but not dragons or blobs. An Universal succubi won't face such restrictions, which makes the modifier cost more than Androgynous at +25%.
According to the second Kromm post, what I gather is that the skill bonus appearance gives depends on the target. If a Succubi is dealing with male humans, female orcs, or a transsexual dragon, she gets bonus to Sex Appeal because those are races with the concept of sex. However against blobs that reproduce through binary fission, a crystalloid born out of crystallized impure iron in the core of the planet, or other assexual beings, the bonus won't be to Sex Appeal but something else, likely Intimidate.
It's the first one I saw, but your last link (the middle two are the same) is rather clear, at least to me, that you can't get sexual attraction across species barriers that large.

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I suppose you are talking about your universe, right?
No, in general. Several fanatsy universes/settings seems to have succubi but not incubi

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I am not implying you should add them; however, besides feeding from human fluids, succubi drain the sperm of men, and take it to the incubi. Then the incubi employs said sperm on females to reproduce. Hence, you get the 50-50% population by gender. There's also the "artificial way" to create incubi/succubi, that could change the population by gender; but I leave that to you.
That's not what I was suggesting at all, I was suggesting they gathered the immaterial energy of creation.

I think I'll take the oppurtunity to remind people that we're discussing a non-evil, non-demonic, PC race.
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Old 10-01-2019, 07:48 AM   #23
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Default Re: [DF] How Many Abilities Should A Race Get?

IIRC, the Healing Advantage has difficulty curing diseases, so given a succubus’ likely activities, some degree of Resistant to Disease (perhaps even outright immunity) would be appropriate, and plays well with their “energy of creation can be used to heal” theme. You can optionally restrict it to only affect STI’s/STD’s; I’d assume that is one category less common than diseases in general. I’m not certain exactly what happens if a character under the effects of something Resistant would work against suddenly gains Resistance, but if it’s a reroll to eliminate the status, putting Affects Others on a succubus’ Resistant would be quite useful (optionally, apply a Limitation to the Enhancement so it requires intimate contact of some sort).
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Old 10-01-2019, 02:52 PM   #24
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Default Re: [DF] How Many Abilities Should A Race Get?

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It's the first one I saw, but your last link (the middle two are the same) is rather clear, at least to me, that you can't get sexual attraction across species barriers that large.
I think it could work if you allow a cosmic enhancement.

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No, in general. Several fanatsy universes/settings seems to have succubi but not incubi
Not necessarily, in order to explain this you have to dig deeper into the lore and a bit into anthropology. Oversimplifying the facts and broadly speaking, the “modern” succubus revolves around the figure of a prostitute, and the figure of the prostitute is usually associated with females (although there are both male and female prostitutes). Prostitution (especially) in the medieval ages was considered an impure act, and such acts were explained as the result of demonic influence (so to say). You could surmise that knowledge about succubus/incubus prior to the medieval ages was aligned to fulfill the role of highlighting the posture against prostitution, shaping what you currently find in common media, literature and so on. That’s possibly the reason you believe incubi are rare; because it is rarer hearing about male prostitutes than female prostitutes.

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I was suggesting they gathered the immaterial energy of creation. I think I'll take the oppurtunity to remind people that we're discussing a non-evil, non-demonic, PC race.
I am taking into account that your template is not about a devil/demonic entity, but if you want to stripe either of these elements, the name (succubus) you picked for your racial template does not reflect what you intent to represent. It is like saying “this is a template for a dwarf, but these dwarves are tall and slender and have long pointed ears, they just live underground and also smith specially good weapons” (that's a drow).

On the other hand, think of an occupational template. You could simply say any female could become (for example) a priest of Astarte; that they are granted special powers (GURPS - Divine Favors) such as the ones you want to represent, because they serve a goddess of fertility, sex and war. Then it would be understandable, that the cult does not allow men at all (or just very few).
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Old 10-01-2019, 08:40 PM   #25
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Default Re: [DF] How Many Abilities Should A Race Get?

FWIW, GURPS Fantasy has a template for Lilith, a Hebrew demon who might have been the prototype for the Succubus legend. It would make a good basis for a DF Succubus monster or PC race.
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Old 10-01-2019, 09:41 PM   #26
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Default Re: [DF] How Many Abilities Should A Race Get?

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I am taking into account that your template is not about a devil/demonic entity, but if you want to stripe either of these elements, the name (succubus) you picked for your racial template does not reflect what you intent to represent. It is like saying “this is a template for a dwarf, but these dwarves are tall and slender and have long pointed ears, they just live underground and also smith specially good weapons” (that's a drow).
His suggested metarace* has enough succubus elements I don’t think there should be any problems calling it such. The cubi in the webcomic DMFA are explicitly not demons (that’s an entirely different class of creature), but you’d be hard pressed to say Aaryanna (for example) doesn’t count as a succubus.

*What is the correct term for a template/lens that can be applied to multiple races? Another example of such would be a werewolf, in settings where humans, elves, dwarves, etc are all susceptible to becoming such.
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Old 10-01-2019, 10:51 PM   #27
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Default Re: [DF] How Many Abilities Should A Race Get?

Succubus derives from the Latin for 'lying beneath' while incubus derives from the Latin for 'laying upon'. Anyone who lies beneath during intimate activity could be a succubus (female or male) while anyone who lies upon during intimate activity could be an incubus (male or female), so they are technically gender neutral terms (though the original intent was not gender neutral).

The first incubus listed in literature was Lilu, Gilgamesh's father, while the first succubus was much later, 14th century AD, with a late medieval attribution to Lilith. The association with the ancient Lilim was a conflation of two related concepts, but it is ahistorical, as it happened long after the belief in Lilim ended. Strangely enough, intimate activity with a succubus was supposed to be quite unpleasant, though modern interpretations tend to make such activity rapturous instead.
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Old 10-01-2019, 11:56 PM   #28
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Default Re: [DF] How Many Abilities Should A Race Get?

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His suggested metarace* has enough succubus elements I don’t think there should be any problems calling it such. The cubi in the webcomic DMFA are explicitly not demons (that’s an entirely different class of creature), but you’d be hard pressed to say Aaryanna (for example) doesn’t count as a succubus.
I am not familiar with the comic you mention; but from what I read here, it looks like that race (within its universe) is a special subset of angels/demons (the article being in the demonology section).

This is just an hypothesis, but I believe this particularly modern material has drawn ideas from the Dark-Stalkers series, thus falling in what I previously talked about regarding Morrigan Aesland and japanese character design. Still, the author seems to have kept some of the basic attributes that make up for the "traditional" succubus, such as being some sort of demon and draining vital force (but lacks the basic part of doing it during sex).

So, said "cubi" falls into the "psionic vampire" class.

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*What is the correct term for a template/lens that can be applied to multiple races? Another example of such would be a werewolf, in settings where humans, elves, dwarves, etc are all susceptible to becoming such.
Yeah, that's right! And turning into a werewolf usually means the subject is cursed, turns into an anthropomorphic wolf, and has an infectious attack.

IMO, there is a quintessential element that defines the meaning of the words/names for things. When you talk about simple stones, do you picture soft clay? What do you think about when you talk about fire? Is it luminous and freezing?

Any author is free to name whatever they want as they wish within their universes. It's their freedom of creation, and I understand it. But there will be contradictions when striping basic elements of an established concept, and these contradictions may lead to confusions, (such as the confusion here regarding the "cubi" as succubus, while they are in fact "psionic vampires").

If this is about the succubus/incubus, what should it be? A demon that drains life force during sex. If it lacks either of these two, it becomes something else... it could be an alien, la furia, the chupacabra, a "lude" (vampire), a sídhe etc.

So, if we talk about the succubus, then the abilities should be as demonic as they may, dark and most probably sexual. The number of abilities would depend on the CP budget of the character, but a cheap template should (ideally) include traits that link the concept with the (already existing) construct. And these are the ones I tried to assess.

However, it seems this is about linking a concept with a conception. Hence I suggested the job template "priestess of Astarte", because (following the job template idea) I think it is easier digesting that people (within the OP universe) nicknamed the female priestess "succubus" since they share a few traits with real ones (such as "laying beneath" or "laying upon").

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Succubus derives from the Latin for 'lying beneath' while incubus derives from the Latin for 'laying upon' (...)
Etymology is good, but it is a partial element, it does not encompasses the full idea.
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Last edited by Hide; 10-02-2019 at 12:02 AM.
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Old 10-02-2019, 01:41 AM   #29
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Default Re: [DF] How Many Abilities Should A Race Get?

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IIRC, the Healing Advantage has difficulty curing diseases, so given a succubus’ likely activities, some degree of Resistant to Disease (perhaps even outright immunity) would be appropriate, and plays well with their “energy of creation can be used to heal” theme. You can optionally restrict it to only affect STI’s/STD’s; I’d assume that is one category less common than diseases in general. I’m not certain exactly what happens if a character under the effects of something Resistant would work against suddenly gains Resistance, but if it’s a reroll to eliminate the status, putting Affects Others on a succubus’ Resistant would be quite useful (optionally, apply a Limitation to the Enhancement so it requires intimate contact of some sort).
Not really, the IQ roll to use it takes a penalty for how hard it is to cure the disease in question, that said a perk to Resistance to STD's might well fit in.

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I think it could work if you allow a cosmic enhancement.
The problem with this is that now your character is sexually attractive to EVERYTHING, EVEN THINGS WHICH DON'T EXPERIENCE SEXUAL ATTRACTION, if you can't see the problem with this there's something wrong with you.

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Originally Posted by Hide View Post
I am taking into account that your template is not about a devil/demonic entity, but if you want to stripe either of these elements, the name (succubus) you picked for your racial template does not reflect what you intent to represent. It is like saying “this is a template for a dwarf, but these dwarves are tall and slender and have long pointed ears, they just live underground and also smith specially good weapons” (that's a drow).
Why are you so hung up on them ingesting this sort of stuff?

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Originally Posted by Pursuivant View Post
FWIW, GURPS Fantasy has a template for Lilith, a Hebrew demon who might have been the prototype for the Succubus legend. It would make a good basis for a DF Succubus monster or PC race.
It's 714 points

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
*What is the correct term for a template/lens that can be applied to multiple races? Another example of such would be a werewolf, in settings where humans, elves, dwarves, etc are all susceptible to becoming such.
No idea, might be Template Toolkit 2: Races.
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Old 10-02-2019, 01:47 AM   #30
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Default Re: [DF] How Many Abilities Should A Race Get?

What is defined as an Incubus och Succubus is wholly up to the author. Obviously people may call bull on it if it is too far departed, considering how many things are associated with those creature getting some bare minimum should be trivial.

It's a bit like how any blood-drinker can, and often will be called a vampire.

F.ex.

Demonic Succubus:
Appearance: Attractive or better; DR (Fire); Flight (Winged); Magery 0
Social Stigma: Monster
Qualifies as a Demon. Make fire comparable to a mundane lighter at will.

Nightmare:
Draining (Sleeping victims only, side-effect nightmares); Magery 3
Appearance: Ugly or Worse
Spells: Sleep, etc. Perhaps illusions to hide true appearance.

Devilish Seducer:
Appearance: Beautiful; DR 1*; Charisma 5 (Resistible by Will, Magical); Claws*; Magery 1, Strength+1*
Secret (Demon)
Qualifies as a Demon.
Spells: Mind-related spells.
* With temporary disadvantage: (Loses "Appearance: Beautiful", gains "Appearance: Monstrous") (-32%)

Etc.

Of course, if you try to attach everything related to Succubui/Incubi onto the same template it will get outrageously expensive though.
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