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Old 10-27-2019, 12:37 AM   #21
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: Magical Gadgets versus Magical Gear

Money is CP, one way or another, so it is effectively the same thing unless all of your players have Multimillionaire 1+. In effect, every energy point is worth 1/50 average starting wealth ($20/energy point at TL3 or $400/energy point at TL8) when purchased as Signature Gear, so it is a good metric for the conversion (+25% to cost if bought as normal gear). A TL8 character with Filthy Rich only has $400,000 to spend on adventuring gear, which translates to 800 energy points, which suggests that magical gear should be really too valuable to have as normal loot.
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Old 10-27-2019, 01:05 AM   #22
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Magical Gadgets versus Magical Gear

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Money is CP, one way or another, so it is effectively the same thing unless all of your players have Multimillionaire 1+. In effect, every energy point is worth 1/50 average starting wealth ($20/energy point at TL3 or $400/energy point at TL8) when purchased as Signature Gear, so it is a good metric for the conversion (+25% to cost if bought as normal gear). A TL8 character with Filthy Rich only has $400,000 to spend on adventuring gear, which translates to 800 energy points, which suggests that magical gear should be really too valuable to have as normal loot.
But money is not character points. Particularly not in fantasy games where you can stumble across vast fortunes no matter what your Wealth level is. Character points in general describe things that are so integral to the character that when they are lost, that is the same category as being maimed. Money by contrast is transient and external. The energy price of magic items is actually just intended to keep enchanting out of the hands adventuring mages because enchanting can take campaign power escalation out of the hands of the GM.
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Old 10-27-2019, 06:17 AM   #23
Stormcrow
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ronkonkoma, NY
Default Re: Magical Gadgets versus Magical Gear

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
For example, a staff of Teleport costs 3,000 energy (7,000 with Power 4), with translates to 120 CP worth of Signature Gear (280 CP worth of Signature Gear with Power 4). Alternatively, you could just take Warp (Can Carry Objects, Heavy, +30%; Magical, -10%; Reliable, +10, +50%; Staff, Protected, -50%) [120], and you get better functionality. Since magical gadgets have better functionality than magical gear for the same CP, I ban magical gear and just have characters purchase magical gadgets.
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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
Uh-hunh. Or you could just not make your characters get everything they own or find as Signature Gear. That's an option.
Precisely. In a game in which staves of teleportation are not something you can buy, if a character suddenly decides he wants a staff of teleportation, he's got to enchant a staff with mana. This isn't Signature Gear; this is a staff he wants.

The only way you can use Signature Gear is if a staff of teleportation is part of your personal legend. When people think of you, they recall your staff of teleportation prominently. It's not just any piece of equipment.

What you seem to be doing is using Signature Gear for any magic item a character wants, so that you can calculate a point break. This should not be allowed. In general, a magic item should not be Signature Gear unless the player can justify it as part of their personal legend. If a player just wants the magic item, he can enchant one or have it enchanted.
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Old 10-27-2019, 07:29 AM   #24
naloth
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Re: Magical Gadgets versus Magical Gear

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Originally Posted by Stormcrow View Post
What you seem to be doing is using Signature Gear for any magic item a character wants, so that you can calculate a point break. This should not be allowed. In general, a magic item should not be Signature Gear unless the player can justify it as part of their personal legend. If a player just wants the magic item, he can enchant one or have it enchanted.
That's essentially what I've always thought. Signature Gear is for gear that is part of the character, but still otherwise normal gear. Indiana Jones is known for his hat (and perhaps whip). Sam Malone (Cheers) could justify having his girl hunting corvette as SG. Cass on Supernatural probably bought that one suit as SG. A knight's horse could be SG (always there when it needs it) or an Ally (helps during adventures).

Gadgets are for things that cannot be purchased. Which limitations you take decide how much plot protection they have.
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Old 10-27-2019, 09:05 AM   #25
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: Magical Gadgets versus Magical Gear

Yes, and you cannot purchase magical items on most settings (even where magic exists). Where is the magical item shop in The Dresden Files or The Lord of the Rings? Even in most magical settings, magic is too personal to have magical item shops, which means that magical items are magical gadgets instead of magical gear.
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Old 10-27-2019, 11:52 AM   #26
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Magical Gadgets versus Magical Gear

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Yes, and you cannot purchase magical items on most settings (even where magic exists). Where is the magical item shop in The Dresden Files or The Lord of the Rings? .
Go to a dwarf or elf smith in Middle Earth. Or go to an elven weaver. The reason why they don't have magic item shops as such is because they don't have shops as such. But an elf can definitely just buy a camouflage cloak.
Dresden pretty much just doesn't have magic items.
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Old 10-27-2019, 12:38 PM   #27
naloth
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Re: Magical Gadgets versus Magical Gear

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
Go to a dwarf or elf smith in Middle Earth. Or go to an elven weaver. The reason why they don't have magic item shops as such is because they don't have shops as such. But an elf can definitely just buy a camouflage cloak.
In a given setting camouflage cloaks and other enchanted equipment might just be gear you can buy. The blades Bilbo and Gandalf were wielding couldn't be purchased from any vendor, though.

Quote:
Dresden pretty much just doesn't have magic items.
Harry Dresden? He started with a blasting rod (innate attack), magic staff (magery/skill bonus), and a kinetic ring (limited use attack). He enchanted a duster so it could shrug off bullets better than Kevlar. I'd list more, but that gets into spoilers.
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Old 10-27-2019, 12:41 PM   #28
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Magical Gadgets versus Magical Gear

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Yes, and you cannot purchase magical items on most settings (even where magic exists).
Then that simplifies it: you're required to use the gadgets rules. Signature gear is based on the money price of the item, and if it can't be purchased it has no money price.
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Old 10-27-2019, 01:46 PM   #29
Stormcrow
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ronkonkoma, NY
Default Re: Magical Gadgets versus Magical Gear

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Yes, and you cannot purchase magical items on most settings (even where magic exists).
Yes. Which means there is no cash value for these items in these settings. Thus, there is no discount for buying an item as Signature Gear instead of enchanting it outright. Your only choice is to build it as a gadget.

In other words, Signature Gear based on cash price and gadgets are mutually exclusive. Given an item, you never have a choice between methods of building it.
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Old 11-01-2019, 01:51 PM   #30
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Magical Gadgets versus Magical Gear

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
In a given setting camouflage cloaks and other enchanted equipment might just be gear you can buy. The blades Bilbo and Gandalf were wielding couldn't be purchased from any vendor, though.
.
Because the people capable of making them were long dead. It`s like a post-apocalyptic campaign where every once in a while your TL 4 adventurers find a TL 9+ relic in usable shape. But rare and irreplaceable is still not the same thing as ``part of the character concept``.
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