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Old 07-30-2017, 11:58 AM   #31
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Default Re: High Magic Spells

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Originally Posted by TimTimmy View Post
Duplication would probably apply to a superhero campaign. If allowed, can that be my assistant?

Could you use you Compartmentalized Mind to be your own assistant?

Do the above two get their own FP? and FP regen?
I believe the Luck issue has also been addressed in the FAQ and all the history indicates it was referred to here.
Duplication definitely would count as an assistant, and would only recover FP while available and active.
Compartmentalized Mind might count as an assistant but shares the same FP pool so I can easily see a GM ruling against it here.
I can see it either way, though I lean towards allowing it as an assistant and say each compartment can draw enough incremental energy to participate effectively.
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Old 07-30-2017, 12:18 PM   #32
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Default Re: High Magic Spells

Is the FAQ (with the luck info) published anywhere? Would a kind person please provide the link?

In case my motives are not clear, I am not a powergamer. In my uninformed opinion, the Gurps enchanting rules are woefully weak (certainly compared to the handful of games I am familiar with). I am trying to see if a well-designed character can reasonably use them (Crit-fail ruins all material and wastes your years of effort is not playable. I am hoping there isa way to mitigate against that). I am hoping Enchanting is not an NPC-only career. Note that most/all PCs will have to conform to a group's time-table and time off. All I am trying to do is find a way of making enchanting playable within the rules. I am also happy to dedicate half of my character's resources to enchanting.

If you want to skip a few steps, my ultimate goal is to -somehow- have a flying ship. I thought the best way to do it is by enchantment. It looks like the best way to do it is to go "Wealth" and BUY it off an npc enchanter. Not a satisfactory answer (to me).

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Old 07-30-2017, 12:29 PM   #33
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Default Re: High Magic Spells

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Originally Posted by TimTimmy View Post
Is the FAQ (with the luck info) published anywhere? Would a kind person please provide the link?
Here's a direct answer from the GURPS Line Editor, Dr. Kromm. His answers might as well be the FAQ.
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Old 07-30-2017, 12:37 PM   #34
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Default Re: High Magic Spells

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Originally Posted by TimTimmy View Post
Is the FAQ (with the luck info) published anywhere? Would a kind person please provide the link?

If you want to skip a few steps, my ultimate goal is to -somehow- have a flying ship. I thought the best way to do it is by enchantment. It looks like the best way to do it is to go "Wealth" and BUY it off an npc enchanter. Not a satisfactory answer (to me).
If you're willing to start with the ship rather than enchanting it in play, other options include buying it as Signature Gear or a Gadget.

One idea that hasn't been mentioned yet is the article The Material Difference, from Pyramid #3/66. It covers enchanting in play by using magically potent materials to speed things up.
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Old 07-30-2017, 12:38 PM   #35
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Default Re: High Magic Spells

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Originally Posted by TimTimmy View Post
Is the FAQ (with the luck info) published anywhere? Would a kind person please provide the link?
Official FAQ, a bit out of date. Unofficial FAQ, part of this forum, and much more up-to-date.
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Old 07-30-2017, 12:40 PM   #36
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Default Re: High Magic Spells

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Is the FAQ (with the luck info) published anywhere? Would a kind person please provide the link?

If you want to skip a few steps, my ultimate goal is to -somehow- have a flying ship. I thought the best way to do it is by enchantment. It looks like the best way to do it is to go "Wealth" and BUY it off an npc enchanter. Not a satisfactory answer (to me).
The Official FAQ is here though a quick review did not seem to address this question. The Unofficial FAQ is as noted in this forum, near the top its one of the stickies threads.

Your impression is correct. The default magic system is not really designed for PC enchanters to make major items. And lets face it Flying ships are major items.
GURPS Thaumatology and various Pyramid articles see my thread in the Pyramid forum has additional material. In particular Material Magic is relevant.
GURPS magic is designed to allow reasonably common spell casting but only minor items. A lot of magic items and major area castings would ruin any credible midevel campaign.
Just as Technology reshaped the world so would a lot of magic.
Other magic systems aim for different goals, play styles or power levels.
Powers as magic is probably the best fit for making your own Flying Ship.
However any method to procure a Flying Ship will be expensive because it should be in most settings.
If it were cheap and easy to do then there would be a lot of them after all.
A setting where that is desired is easy just call it TL 4+5 to make them as common as airplanes or 4+6^ or so if you want them as common as cars.
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Old 07-30-2017, 01:35 PM   #37
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Default Re: High Magic Spells

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I am trying to see if a well-designed character can reasonably use them (Crit-fail ruins all material and wastes your years of effort is not playable. I am hoping there isa way to mitigate against that).
No, GURPS Magic is intended to be a little risky. Wasting your investment on a crit-fail (which is less than a 2% chance, or under half a percent if you're playing it safe) is pretty small potatoes, to be honest.

You might be able to get your GM to implement variants to change those things, though I probably wouldn't advise them to. You're not going to be able to rules-lawyer up a work-around though.

Well, with one exception. You could mitigate the costs by coming up with ways to not care about those costs so much. Things like doing your enchanting in a pocket of accelerated time, funding it by breaking the economy with certain spells, and of course having resurrection insurance in place in case you kill yourself botching a Soul Stone spell. Your GM may not be amenable to these sorts of things, and you may not have access to the requirements for them.
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I am hoping Enchanting is not an NPC-only career. Note that most/all PCs will have to conform to a group's time-table and time off. All I am trying to do is find a way of making enchanting playable within the rules. I am also happy to dedicate half of my character's resources to enchanting.
Enchanting isn't NPC-only in GURPS (even under the GURPS Magic system which is not the only approach) for a few different reasons.

One is that GURPS does not strongly assume that a PC is a member of a group of adventurers with a dense mission schedule. You could play a game that was closer to Ars Magica where all the mage PCs staying holed up in their stronghold for years on end is totally appropriate, for instance. This doesn't really help you because your game does, but that's not GURPS' doing.

Another is that Quick-And-Dirty enchantment is definitely accessible to PCs if they're a bit on the powerful side, and especially if there are a few of them interested in it. Q&D won't help with the high-ticket spells you seem to be focusing on unless you're able (and allowed) to get a huge Energy Reserve or similar power supply, an enchanting circle, or both, but there are cheaper enchantment spells that can be useful.

GURPS Magic expects major enchanted items to be high-value. If mages can knock them out in a spare day or two, that won't make much sense. It's not impossible to change that assumption, but it's a pretty big setting change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimTimmy View Post
If you want to skip a few steps, my ultimate goal is to -somehow- have a flying ship. I thought the best way to do it is by enchantment. It looks like the best way to do it is to go "Wealth" and BUY it off an npc enchanter. Not a satisfactory answer (to me).
Skipping a few steps is an extremely good idea here - if having the ship is the important thing, focus on that. If being someone who makes the ship is the important thing, then that's a different focus.

Starting rich enough to buy it is probably the most practical way to go, but the Vehicles as Allies approach (which I think is probably introduced in Powers?) might also make sense - but it could be expensive because anything big tends to need a high point budget.
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Old 07-30-2017, 01:38 PM   #38
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Default Re: High Magic Spells

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimTimmy View Post
If you want to skip a few steps, my ultimate goal is to -somehow- have a flying ship. I thought the best way to do it is by enchantment. It looks like the best way to do it is to go "Wealth" and BUY it off an npc enchanter. Not a satisfactory answer (to me).
Making a flying ship is akin to making a ship in the first place. You wouldn't expect a PC shipwright to knock out an 18 gun sloop-of-war working by themselves over a three-day weekend. You should expect it to be a long-term project for a sizable crew. You need downtime, and assistants.
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Old 07-30-2017, 01:51 PM   #39
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Default Re: High Magic Spells

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Originally Posted by TimTimmy View Post
(Crit-fail ruins all material and wastes your years of effort is not playable. I am hoping there isa way to mitigate against that).
Gurps Thaumatology has the Stable Casting Enhancement for your Magery. With that it'd basically take 2 crit fails in a row.

There are a couple of ways you could get a flying ship with character pts. If you insisted on doing it as an Enchantment that be in the fine print beneath the Flying Carpet Spell in Magic and I would not regard that as practical myself and I'm passing familiar with High Magic games.
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Old 07-30-2017, 07:51 PM   #40
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Default Re: High Magic Spells

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimTimmy View Post
In my uninformed opinion, the Gurps enchanting rules are woefully weak (certainly compared to the handful of games I am familiar with). I am trying to see if a well-designed character can reasonably use them (Crit-fail ruins all material and wastes your years of effort is not playable. I am hoping there isa way to mitigate against that). I am hoping Enchanting is not an NPC-only career. Note that most/all PCs will have to conform to a group's time-table and time off. All I am trying to do is find a way of making enchanting playable within the rules. I am also happy to dedicate half of my character's resources to enchanting.
I made a PC focused on echantment. Making lowish level magic items is fairly easy when you bump up fatigue, make/buy some largish powerstones or manastones, and especially have an energy reserve with up to -80% in limitations (accessibility:"enchantment only" is a nice one). For the big enchantments, spend the character points for an ally group with an accessibility limitation of for enchanting help only (a very large circle of enchanter peers), maybe with a reciprocal duty to the same group (also for enchanting or gathering enchantment materials).
Keep in mind that your enchanting PC will need to be skilled in all the spells you intend to enchant with. My PC mostly focused on making fortified essential metal armor.
Quote:
If you want to skip a few steps, my ultimate goal is to -somehow- have a flying ship. I thought the best way to do it is by enchantment. It looks like the best way to do it is to go "Wealth" and BUY it off an npc enchanter. Not a satisfactory answer (to me).
Having a character skilled in carpentry or ship building usually means they can make a boat, but making a normal ship will take a large group of people, a lot of time, and/or a lot of money. Making a flying ship similarly would take a large circle of enchanters, time, and maybe a town full of witnesses willing to lend their energy to make a flying ship the town can use for its purposes occasionally.

edit: A viking longship 65 feet long and 6 feet wide would be roughly 78,000 energy. That does seem to be a lot of energy. Permanently enchanting brooms or other 1 square foot items are doable via quick-and-dirty enchanting.

Last edited by Culture20; 07-30-2017 at 08:04 PM.
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