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Old 11-01-2017, 07:28 AM   #1
Jasonft
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Default Innate attack accuracy question

You can buy Innate Attack with an Acc bonus. Normally this bonus would require you to spend a turn aiming to get it.

Question: If the attack is through a focus item like a gun does Gunslinger or something like it allow you to use that Acc without spending a turn aiming?

If the answer to the above is yes, what about Weapon-master (or something like it) and an attack that manifests as a sword?

I was doing an experimental build and came across this question. It would seem to be allowed under the rules but I wasn't sure.
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Old 11-01-2017, 07:57 AM   #2
evileeyore
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Default Re: Innate attack accuracy question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonft View Post
Question: If the attack is through a focus item like a gun does Gunslinger or something like it allow you to use that Acc without spending a turn aiming?
I'd say yes.

Quote:
If the answer to the above is yes, what about Weapon-master (or something like it) and an attack that manifests as a sword?
Weapon Master doesn't give Acc bonuses without aiming (for Weapon Master Bow) and you don't get Acc bonuses on a melee weapon.
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Old 11-01-2017, 08:58 AM   #3
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Innate attack accuracy question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonft View Post
Question: If the attack is through a focus item like a gun does Gunslinger or something like it allow you to use that Acc without spending a turn aiming?
I'd do this as the lower of the power's Acc and the Acc of the weapon (or half Acc each, for a two-handed weapon), personally.

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Originally Posted by Jasonft View Post
If the answer to the above is yes, what about Weapon-master (or something like it) and an attack that manifests as a sword?
I'm assuming you mean if the character has Weapon Master, would the damage bonus, reduced penalties, etc come into play? I'd probably say no to the damage bonus (that should be handled with a higher level of Innate Attack, or if going the Natural Weapon route a few levels of the Increased Damage Enhancement), but could be persuaded otherwise. So long as the manifested weapon functions and looks like a weapon for which the character has Weapon Master, however, I'd allow the rest to come into play.
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Old 11-01-2017, 12:16 PM   #4
Jasonft
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Default Re: Innate attack accuracy question

Actually, it involves a Weapon Form Ally. Said Ally is built into an already existing and paid for as Signature Gear sword. If the Ally is there (it can be banished/ depends on mana/ use imagination) it gives a damage bonus. Having the attack 'replace' the base sword's damage if it is there and active is viable to avoid rules violations.

This is simple enough. Weapon Master applies as normal, or so I read things.

Then I saw the Accuracy enhancement. I got to wondering about how, and if, this acc bonus type thing would apply when used in an attack. Spending a turn concentrating/ planning before a Quick Draw slash or some such sort of works but is confusing - thus the OP question.

Like I said, it's an experimental build. Weaponized Allies are weird but legal. I never tried to build one before. Building it as a gun in some ways would be simpler, but in this case it's a sword.
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Old 11-02-2017, 06:42 PM   #5
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Innate attack accuracy question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonft View Post
Actually, it involves a Weapon Form Ally. Said Ally is built into an already existing and paid for as Signature Gear sword. If the Ally is there (it can be banished/ depends on mana/ use imagination) it gives a damage bonus. Having the attack 'replace' the base sword's damage if it is there and active is viable to avoid rules violations.

This is simple enough. Weapon Master applies as normal, or so I read things.
Allies like this are, as you note, tricky. Personally, I'd treat the Ally as though he had a Natural Weapon equivalent to the base sword without paying points for it, then have him buy the increased damage as an Enhancement (a sword Natural Weapon is going to have a base cost of [8], so use that to figure out how much each boost to damage would cost).

Either way, I'd be fine with the character fully using Weapon Master in this case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonft View Post
Then I saw the Accuracy enhancement. I got to wondering about how, and if, this acc bonus type thing would apply when used in an attack. Spending a turn concentrating/ planning before a Quick Draw slash or some such sort of works but is confusing - thus the OP question.
Melee weapons and attacks lack an Acc statistic, and thus Accurate isn't a legal Enhancement. In theory you could treat them as Acc 1 and Evaluate as "melee Aim," but Deceptive Attack is much more of a significant factor in melee combat than it is in Ranged. For the sword above, paying only [4] to get a +10 over a normal one-round Evaluate is pretty serious! I previously (but have, predictably, lost all but the final form of the document)* worked out that an overall +1 to attack for a melee Natural Weapon would be worth roughly +30%. With that in mind, I'd say a version that requires being preceded by an Evaluate would be worth +15% or +20%. I'd probably limit it to 5 levels. Regardless of how you build it, there shouldn't be an option to be able to skip the Evaluate.

*Reworking it, +15% for just a bonus to attack might be appropriate, making the Requires Evaluate version probably +10%. Increased Damage is +30% per +1 to damage, and by the Technique Design System that's equivalent to +2 to hit, for +15%. The +30% is for a +1 to skill, and I think I worked that out from combining Increased Damage with Good Defense, which is +60% and using the hit-to-damage ratio that is +2 to attack and +1 to Parry, roughly the same as an outright +2 to skill. Note the outright bonus to attack is what you'd use if you don't need an Evaluate.
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