05-24-2010, 07:11 AM | #11 | ||
Join Date: Oct 2004
|
Re: Rationale for the progression of ST-based damage
Quote:
And all this on a range upto some thousand yards! A Melee swing will always be less efficient. Not even a ST 20, 3d+2 + Weapon Master = 3d+8 = 5d+1 who uses All-Out-Attack with 3 attacks per second (All-Out and Rapid Strike) can go so far! Quote:
Do you say, that swing would be 2* thrust? Or 1.5* thrust? And the modifiers would would be multiplied as well: sw+3 at ST 50 would be multiplied with 50/10 for a final 5d+15?!? One problem i have is, that it is difficult to apply damages for ST between full tens. The more regular tables use the Xd-1, Xd, Xd+1, Xd+2, ... way to calculate this.
__________________
4E books: Basic, Powers, Fantasy, Magic, Thaumatology, High Tech, Ultra-Tech, Martial Art, Supers, Space (SC only), Spaceships plus GCA and 66 of 3E books PDF: 4E as above plus Bio-Tech, DF and more |
||
05-24-2010, 07:18 AM | #12 | ||
Join Date: Oct 2004
|
Re: Rationale for the progression of ST-based damage
Quote:
Why should it be different for greater ST? Quote:
It is about the game system itself - call it a theroretical musing :)
__________________
4E books: Basic, Powers, Fantasy, Magic, Thaumatology, High Tech, Ultra-Tech, Martial Art, Supers, Space (SC only), Spaceships plus GCA and 66 of 3E books PDF: 4E as above plus Bio-Tech, DF and more |
||
05-24-2010, 07:22 AM | #13 | ||
Join Date: Oct 2004
|
Re: Rationale for the progression of ST-based damage
Quote:
Quote:
Did you publish about this somewhere? I would like to read more :)
__________________
4E books: Basic, Powers, Fantasy, Magic, Thaumatology, High Tech, Ultra-Tech, Martial Art, Supers, Space (SC only), Spaceships plus GCA and 66 of 3E books PDF: 4E as above plus Bio-Tech, DF and more |
||
05-24-2010, 07:25 AM | #14 | ||||
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
|
Re: Rationale for the progression of ST-based damage
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The best way to handle this type of scaling is likely to apply a certain fraction of the damage of each roll to the weapon itself, so that really strong people using weapons not built for that ST can and will break them. Regularly. I've broken fencing sabres by misuse this way; larger weapons are no different; all materials will fail if overstressed. Quote:
This will give (say) 2d, 2d+1, 2d+2, 2d+3, 3d. the nd-1 point is harder to figure, but it would come between 2d+2 and 2d+3.
__________________
My blog:Gaming Ballistic, LLC My Store: Gaming Ballistic on Shopify My Patreon: Gaming Ballistic on Patreon |
||||
05-24-2010, 07:52 AM | #15 | |
Join Date: Mar 2006
|
Re: Rationale for the progression of ST-based damage
Quote:
In a stat-normalized realistic campaign - the problem doesn't exist. You won't have ST 20 weapon masters running around. |
|
05-24-2010, 10:39 AM | #16 | |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
|
Re: Rationale for the progression of ST-based damage
Well, in that case, he should also pay a lot fewer points for ST; I'm fond of 5/level for ST, 2/level for striking ST (yeah, the parts cost more than the full stat; I don't have a problem with that). I'm also somewhat fond of a model in the form of: Damage = ST*X; X is roughly 0.06 (thrust) or 0.1 (swing), +0.02 per +1 on the weapon. Thus, a ST 20 martial punch (thr+1) would do 0.08*20 or 1.6d or 1d+2. That might reduce Striking ST to *1.
Quote:
|
|
05-24-2010, 11:07 AM | #17 | ||
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
|
Re: Rationale for the progression of ST-based damage
Quote:
Yours is basically the same, but down one step, with ST*0.06 and ST*0.1; still +50%. There's only a slight difference from my proposal and yours; playtesting would work it out. For recosting ST, well yes. I think i mentioned that; if not, I should have. Quote:
And if you punch through DR, you've penetrated; we've tried to handwave this away and rationalize, including in the upcoming Low Tech rules, but there you go. It's more egregious when you compare ST-based damage to pistols, of course, since 2d+2 for the 9mm is far more easily attained, but still, you are in a territory where "guns are better" starts to get a little squishy. Of course, with the pistol or rifle, you get tens to hundreds of yards range, ten to thirty shots (100 with a C-mag), and RoF bonuses; for melee, you get to use full skill more often, though, since range penalties stack up quickly. My point, which still holds, is that a dude swinging an axe rapidly gets to the point where he can really do things that are implausible with human ST alone.
__________________
My blog:Gaming Ballistic, LLC My Store: Gaming Ballistic on Shopify My Patreon: Gaming Ballistic on Patreon |
||
05-24-2010, 11:13 AM | #18 |
Join Date: Jan 2010
|
Re: Rationale for the progression of ST-based damage
You know looking at the rules at Supers 120 for enormous weapons I think the benefit of swing damage is meant to be telescoped into the weapon damage bonuses. The bonus for using a swinging weapon increased more rapidly than for a thrusting weapon.
Specifically: "The swing damage bonus is also proportional to length. On the other hand, the thrust damage bonus is proportional to the square root of length; making a spear twice as long gives it twice the weight, which boosts its damage, but the doubled length by itself has no effect on thrust damage." So that super using the Eiffel Tower as a club gets massively more damage than than his buddy that uses CN Tower like a spear. Presumably at high ST the length of a human arm just isn't long enough to translate into that much extra force. |
05-24-2010, 11:17 AM | #19 | ||
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
|
Re: Rationale for the progression of ST-based damage
Quote:
Quote:
Granted. |
||
05-24-2010, 11:50 AM | #20 | |
Join Date: Mar 2006
|
Re: Rationale for the progression of ST-based damage
Quote:
I think a realistic ST 17 guy would not have Weapon Master, and be something like 600 lbs*.. he should dish out some serious damage with an an axe, but still is somewhat behind from 4d+4. *If you follow the reasonable formula for living creature's weight from HP from Fantasy - very usable for realistic calculations, not so for usual PC's |
|
Tags |
damage, supers, table |
|
|