GURPS/Organization CR

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by naloth

The problem is that's all dependent on the setting. There are certainly settings where you could do just that as well as settings where you could have military hardware. Even if a controlled society, you could run an outlaw gang that flaunted the law by supplying controlled substances <or> or be one of the rare merc groups (blackwater is a common TV trope) that can do all sorts of stuff.

Sure. But the illustrative example was of the US, and I was answering about the US.

You can make up stories where organizations do that. But they're either going to be secretly criminal organizations, or be openly criminal organization at war with the larger society. You can't just say, "Okay, they do X" and not have consequences.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by Alonsua

Sure, how about CR6?

It would be possible, but if there was any indication that there was any sort of coercion in gaining or retaining personnel, the place would be under very close scrutiny. That's the kind of thing that can get heavily armed people sent in to rescue the victims.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Alonsua

Sure, how about CR6?

The point about CR4-5 organizations would apply even more strongly to CR6 organizations. If you want an organization like that, put it in a CR5 society like Iran or a CR6 society like North Korea and have it operate with official approval and sanction.

[Alonsua]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Are you talking about a situation where employees are have no rights to quit, no duties defined as outside their areas of responsibility, no right to refuse overtime (ever) and the employer decides when they are sufficiently sick not to be able to work?

Or is it more than that, does the employer control whether employees are able to date, marry, have sex, have friends, associate with certain indiciduals, read certain publications, use the Internet (without filtersmfor approved websites only), practice a religion (other than, obviously, worshiping their employer) and so forth?

Whatever it takes to bring the CR to 6, and since neural interfaces exist in this setting, that could be brain implants, but good ol' brainwashing and spionage would do it for me.

[Alonsua]

Originally Posted by whswhs

The point about CR4-5 organizations would apply even more strongly to CR6 organizations. If you want an organization like that, put it in a CR5 society like Iran or a CR6 society like North Korea and have it operate with official approval and sanction.

That would not be good for the main purposes of the organization, so USA is the target.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Alonsua

That would not be good for the main purposes of the organization, so USA is the target.

What exactly do you mean by organization CR? How credible this is depends on what situations the enhanced CR actually applies to.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Alonsua

Whatever it takes to bring the CR to 6, and since neural interfaces exist in this setting, that could be brain implants, but good ol' brainwashing and spionage would do it for me.

Originally Posted by Alonsua

That would not be good for the main purposes of the organization, so USA is the target.

Well, what you're proposing would be extremely illegal and publicly reviled almost anywhere, including the current and many models of the future US. The only thing between you and a heavily militarized police siege to shut you down and rescue your victims would be preventing anyone from officially being aware of what you were doing.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Anthony

What exactly do you mean by organization CR? How credible this is depends on what situations the enhanced CR actually applies to.

Per GURPS Boardroom and Curia:

CR6
The organization exercises direct physical or psychological
control over its members, achieved through brainwashing,
enchantment, cranial implants, or similar techniques.
Members are often unable even to think of betraying their
organization without outside prompting.

At current TL, that means brainwashing, or perhaps overt coercion with threats of death or torture. In the United States, doing this on a visible scale would probably have armed troops showing up.

CR5
The organization exerts complete social control over its
members, to the point of dictating everyday activities and
matters such as diet, occupation, and even when and how
one member speaks to others and to outsiders (e.g., monastic
discipline).

I've read that Henry Ford imposed that level of control on his employees, enforced by the threat of dismissal from high-paying jobs. But that was a century ago. It would be less easy to do now, though conceivably a strongly ideological organization might manage it, perhaps helped by a requirement of secrecy.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Per GURPS Boardroom and Curia:

Oh, it's a totally different CR. CR5 is somewhat achievable by religious organizations (though their punishment options are generally limited to excommunication) but not other types of organizations, CR6 is clearly illegal.

[Alonsua]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I've read that Henry Ford imposed that level of control on his employees, enforced by the threat of dismissal from high-paying jobs. But that was a century ago. It would be less easy to do now, though conceivably a strongly ideological organization might manage it, perhaps helped by a requirement of secrecy.

Do you think all forms of brainwashing would be illegal, even if it is internal propaganda? If so, I will reduce CR to 5.