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Old 09-16-2018, 01:57 PM   #11
Devil_Dante
 
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Default Re: standard mafig for DF help

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
They might, but it's not the direct damage that you need to be worried about.
yes, you have right. It's the same for D&D, with the difference that in D&D even a blaster can be (and sure he will, with the right feats) deadlier than fighter. But generally speaking, they have a lot of different way to survive\surpass obstacles

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
My recommendation get Pyramid 3-60 Dungeon Fantasy III and use the Wizardry Refined article. That should solve 9/10ths of any potential "Wizards are breaking the world" problems.


If you aren't doing the DF/DFRPG thing of making Healing magic Cleric only, then you'll have to add the Healing college back in for Wizards, but that's dead simple. Alternately just follow the non-Prerequisites rules for Wizards in the article, that solves most of you're ills, the Prereq redisgn was to remove the Healing College from Wizards for DF.
thank you a lot, was a really good call
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Old 09-17-2018, 07:23 AM   #12
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Default Re: standard mafig for DF help

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post

My recommendation get Pyramid 3-60 Dungeon Fantasy III and use the Wizardry Refined article. That should solve 9/10ths of any potential "Wizards are breaking the world" problems.
Just a side note: That information is built into the Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game, so if you have the RPG, you don't also need the article.

I'll also echo what has been said already: What lets magic-users "break the game" is the combination of save-or-lose spells (like Charm and Flesh to Stone), utility spells (especially those that enhance mobility or circumvent traps or obstacles), and no time pressure. If casters can always take breathers to let their FP and Energy Reserve fill up, they'll be able to use the save-or-lose spells to dominate in combat and the utility spells to dominate out of combat. If taking breaks means more random encounters that demand further resources, or just failing at the adventure because opening the dungeon door started a countdown, then the problem becomes self-correcting.

I've GMed GURPS since the beginning (1986), and in those 30+ years, I've never really seen magic "break the game" when I've kept the pressure on. It's only when I got lazy and let people operate at full FP all the time that magic got out of hand. At some point, I realized that this was a bit silly, like letting soldiers stop for coffee and donuts in an enemy free-fire zone, and I stopped doing it.
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Old 09-19-2018, 08:02 AM   #13
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Default Re: standard mafig for DF help

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Just a side note: That information is built into the Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game, so if you have the RPG, you don't also need the article.

I'll also echo what has been said already: What lets magic-users "break the game" is the combination of save-or-lose spells (like Charm and Flesh to Stone), utility spells (especially those that enhance mobility or circumvent traps or obstacles), and no time pressure. If casters can always take breathers to let their FP and Energy Reserve fill up, they'll be able to use the save-or-lose spells to dominate in combat and the utility spells to dominate out of combat. If taking breaks means more random encounters that demand further resources, or just failing at the adventure because opening the dungeon door started a countdown, then the problem becomes self-correcting.

I've GMed GURPS since the beginning (1986), and in those 30+ years, I've never really seen magic "break the game" when I've kept the pressure on. It's only when I got lazy and let people operate at full FP all the time that magic got out of hand. At some point, I realized that this was a bit silly, like letting soldiers stop for coffee and donuts in an enemy free-fire zone, and I stopped doing it.
it's true, i think is just a managment problem: the way you create and handle encounters and the time between them. Coming from D&D where save or die spells where pretty much useless, i am expectring the worse.

Anyway, we are going to start next week. I'm going too see what will happen!

Thank you for replies
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Old 09-19-2018, 11:51 AM   #14
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Default Re: standard mafig for DF help

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Coming from D&D where save or die spells where pretty much useless, i am expectring the worse.
...that's a proposition I'm pretty sure I've never heard before.
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Old 09-19-2018, 01:19 PM   #15
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Default Re: standard mafig for DF help

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...that's a proposition I'm pretty sure I've never heard before.
It matches my experience about 95% of the time. That's because in oimportant encounters important monsters or level bosses have saving throws that are high enough they only fail when they roll a 1 on D20.

I know players who try iot anyway but they also make melee attacks that will only succeed on natural 20s. I think they just like the drama and don't want to just slog their way throgh the monster's hp.
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Old 09-19-2018, 05:34 PM   #16
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Default Re: standard mafig for DF help

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
...that's a proposition I'm pretty sure I've never heard before.
my bad, i meant, in D&D those spells were useless
forgive me

anyway, as rule of thumb, monsters immune to death attacks/mind control are common in D&D, and generally, save or die are consitution/wisdom based. To be effective with these spells you need to have a very high Difficulty class on saving throw. And to be honest, if your PC reaches that power level he can do whatever he wants: he has the ability score of a demigod, and is not funny anymore i suppose

Last edited by Devil_Dante; 09-19-2018 at 05:40 PM.
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Old 09-19-2018, 05:56 PM   #17
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Default Re: standard mafig for DF help

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Originally Posted by Devil_Dante View Post
my bad, i meant, in D&D those spells were useless
forgive me
Huh? Your meaning was and remains perfectly clear.
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Originally Posted by Devil_Dante View Post
anyway, as rule of thumb, monsters immune to death attacks/mind control are common in D&D, and generally, save or die are consitution/wisdom based. To be effective with these spells you need to have a very high Difficulty class on saving throw. And to be honest, if your PC reaches that power level he can do whatever he wants: he has the ability score of a demigod, and is not funny anymore i suppose
...My best guess is that you're accustomed to an iteration of D&D I've never seen or heard much about. Because in the ones I know save-or-lose is the form of almost all effective offensive magic (and the rest is 'no save, just lose' options).

But we digress from the system at hand.
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