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Old 11-23-2011, 01:17 PM   #21
Gigermann
 
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Default Re: [Pyramid 3/33] Reverse-Engineer Basic Set Weapons

Still messing with it:

For the ST10 Crossbow (however useless it might actually be), it occurred to me that, rather than downgrading the stronger sample, I should upgrade the hand-crossbow sample. Changed it to 160lb draw (max ST10), horn/sinew, 36" span, etc.—still weak as hell, but functional. In the process, also discovered that the damage the spreadsheet reported as "0d+3" actually translates to "1d-1"—that saves some headaches.

Also in the process, I ran across this part of TDS I had missed, which just happens to be what I was looking for in the first place (LOL):
Quote:
• Cinematic scale: Damage (points) = square root of (Kinetic Energy)/1.75.
• Realistic scale: Damage (points) = square root of (Kinetic Energy)/2.5.
Therefore, to convert cinematic damage to realistic, I should be able to use:
Code:
(damage, converted to points * 1.75)/2.5, converted back to dice
If that's right, then I can just convert to realistic damage, and pretend the crossbows are made of magical Medievaluminum—at least until I can get some solid TDS replacements (which I will likely keep plugging away at).
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Old 11-23-2011, 01:32 PM   #22
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Default Re: [Pyramid 3/33] Reverse-Engineer Basic Set Weapons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigermann View Post
Therefore, to convert cinematic damage to realistic, I should be able to use:
Code:
(damage, converted to points * 1.75)/2.5, converted back to dice
If this helps any, this simplifies to "Original damage * 0.7"
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Old 11-23-2011, 02:07 PM   #23
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Default Re: [Pyramid 3/33] Reverse-Engineer Basic Set Weapons

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
This basically means you need a 100-lb. loading device for a 30-35-lb. crossbow. :-)
Is that accurate? If 750lbs is realistic for a military crossbow, are there 100lb loading devices out there too? BTW, what is that? A semi-portable windlass?
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Old 11-23-2011, 02:19 PM   #24
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Default Re: [Pyramid 3/33] Reverse-Engineer Basic Set Weapons

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Is that accurate? If 750lbs is realistic for a military crossbow, are there 100lb loading devices out there too? BTW, what is that? A semi-portable windlass?
I'm pretty sure single ST 10 men weren't loading the crossbows that weighed 35 lbs... Put a stronger man on it, or better yet a two man team with two stronger men (even ST 12).
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Old 11-23-2011, 02:23 PM   #25
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Default Re: [Pyramid 3/33] Reverse-Engineer Basic Set Weapons

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I'm pretty sure single ST 10 men weren't loading the crossbows that weighed 35 lbs... Put a stronger man on it, or better yet a two man team with two stronger men (even ST 12).
Right, so the answer isn't, "Use a 100lb windlass" it's "Use a stronger crossbowman and/or an assistant crossbowman".
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Old 11-23-2011, 06:07 PM   #26
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Default Re: [Pyramid 3/33] Reverse-Engineer Basic Set Weapons

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Right, so the answer isn't, "Use a 100lb windlass" it's "Use a stronger crossbowman and/or an assistant crossbowman".
A windlass that can span a 1,900 lbs. draw crossbow in around 35 seconds for someone familiar with it, but neither exceptional nor trying to fight a battle, is around 5-6 lbs.

I was very sorry not to have time to assist Doug with his article, as I did eventually come up with my own system for crossbows in my campaigns. Fortunately, it also tracks draw weight and then has spanning devices allow the spanning of a multiple of BL and/or allow you to keep cranking for a period of time. Which means I could use the bow stats his system spits out and then just figure out how long the bow takes to span using my rules.
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Old 11-24-2011, 08:45 AM   #27
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Default Re: [Pyramid 3/33] Reverse-Engineer Basic Set Weapons

For anyone else trying to design proper crossbows, as I am, might benefit from this resource I've stumbled upon. Not exact dimensions, but enough information to make an educated start.
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Old 11-24-2011, 09:02 AM   #28
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Default Re: [Pyramid 3/33] Reverse-Engineer Basic Set Weapons

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
A windlass that can span a 1,900 lbs. draw crossbow in around 35 seconds for someone familiar with it, but neither exceptional nor trying to fight a battle, is around 5-6 lbs.

I was very sorry not to have time to assist Doug with his article, as I did eventually come up with my own system for crossbows in my campaigns. Fortunately, it also tracks draw weight and then has spanning devices allow the spanning of a multiple of BL and/or allow you to keep cranking for a period of time. Which means I could use the bow stats his system spits out and then just figure out how long the bow takes to span using my rules.
For spanning devices, I just made continuous functions from the devices in Low Tech. No research was done on those.

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Old 11-24-2011, 09:15 AM   #29
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Default Re: [Pyramid 3/33] Reverse-Engineer Basic Set Weapons

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Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
For spanning devices, I just made continuous functions from the devices in Low Tech. No research was done on those.
The ones in Low-Tech ought to be multipliers on Basic Lift, not some bizarre ST multipliers.
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Old 11-24-2011, 09:33 AM   #30
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Default Re: [Pyramid 3/33] Reverse-Engineer Basic Set Weapons

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
The ones in Low-Tech ought to be multipliers on Basic Lift, not some bizarre ST multipliers.
So to find out how much ST does a cranequin grant for the MinST calculation of a crossbow for a given character, one has to do a square and a square root? As absurd as it sounds, working with BL is bizarre in GURPS, not with ST. It might be more correct from a physics standpoint (okay, it is), but it is bizarre here. GURPS doesn't normally interact with BL directly that way. In a way, 3e ST was simpler.
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