"Seeker", and Bards

[Harald387]

Bards get Knowledge spells. "Seeker" is a Knowledge spell. It even has a Bardic Talent Prerequisite:

Wizardly: Magery 1 or Bardic Talent 1, plus IQ 12+ and at least two “Seek” spells.

However, apart from "Seek Magic", it doesn't appear that Bards can learn any Seek spells in order to meet the prerequisite. Am I missing something?

[Stone Dog]

I don't have the DFRPG yet, but could it be that they can learn the spell for prerequisite purposes, they just can't CAST it?

[zoncxs]

Check the note on page 73 of the Spells pdf. The answer you seek is there.

[PK]

Originally Posted by Harald387

Bards get Knowledge spells. "Seeker" is a Knowledge spell. It even has a Bardic Talent Prerequisite:

Wizardly: Magery 1 or Bardic Talent 1, plus IQ 12+ and at least two “Seek” spells.

However, apart from "Seek Magic", it doesn't appear that Bards can learn any Seek spells in order to meet the prerequisite. Am I missing something?

Nope, you're right. Bards cannot cast Seeker. The Bardic Talent prerequisite is still relevant, though, because (say) a half-elf bard might have Magery 0 but Bardic Talent 1, which gives him the right to learn Seeker.

Originally Posted by Stone Dog

I don't have the DFRPG yet, but could it be that they can learn the spell for prerequisite purposes, they just can't CAST it?

No, the default assumption is that you can't learn a spell that you can't cast. (Many GMs, myself included, rule otherwise; but that's not RAW.)

[scc]

[QUOTE=PK;2137868No, the default assumption is that you can't learn a spell that you can't cast. (Many GMs, myself included, rule otherwise; but that's not RAW.)[/QUOTE]
Is this a DFRPG thing or a normal thing? Because I think there's a bit about doing that somewhere in Magic

[Kromm]

In the DFRPG all spells have either spellcasting talents or other spells that require spellcasting talents as prerequisites. There are none that do not. The most basic wizardly spells require either Magery 0 or Bardic Talent 1. On the whole, elves and half-elves make the best bards because they have access to more magic. This is intended behavior.

[Stone Dog]

Originally Posted by PK

No, the default assumption is that you can't learn a spell that you can't cast. (Many GMs, myself included, rule otherwise; but that's not RAW.)

Ah yes. Found it in GURPS Basic at least, "if you lack the required Magery level, you cannot learn the spell."

[corwyn]

Originally Posted by Kromm

In the DFRPG all spells have either spellcasting talents or other spells that require spellcasting talents as prerequisites. There are none that do not. The most basic wizardly spells require either Magery 0 or Bardic Talent 1. On the whole, elves and half-elves make the best bards because they have access to more magic. This is intended behavior.

So, do Wizard spells (those learned with Magery 0) qualify as prereqs for "bardic" spells?

The (half-) elven racial templates have magery 0 with no option for increasing it - I don't see any general rule for increasing racial abilities under advancement. Seeker requires Magery 1 or BT 1. An elf Bard can have two seek spells (with Magery 0) and has BT 1. Can he buy Seeker?

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by corwyn

So, do Wizard spells (those learned with Magery 0) qualify as prereqs for "bardic" spells?

Yes! They're all wizardly spells. Bards cast the exact same spells . . . they just have weird ritual requirements for doing so.