[Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Social Stigma

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Social Stigma isn't about what you do.

Precisely.

Social Stigma means "Essentially everybody in the campaign reference society marginalizes, distrusts, ridicules, or hates me for belonging to group X." It is by definition not specific to you or your actions.

"Convicted criminals" is an example of a group X: Yes, you might have committed a crime to join that group (but not necessarily – you might have been wrongfully convicted), but Social Stigma (Criminal Record) is about others not knowing or particularly caring about whether you did or didn't actually commit a crime, or even what crime . . . they just learn you're an ex-con and shut down at once. If you're specifically called out for a particular crime, that's a separate Reputation. And if you go around behaving like a criminal, that's a separate Odious Personal Habit. You can have any one or two of these, or all three:

Odious Racial Habit (Criminal Mannerisms): You go around acting like a scumbag, suggesting you would have no problem committing crimes, even if you've never committed a crime (and might even have Honesty, with some work). You're treated badly because you, personally, make people uncomfortable.

Reputation (Criminal): You're notorious for the commission of a specific criminal act, for which you may or may not have actually been convicted. You're treated badly because you, personally, are viewed as villainous.

Social Stigma (Criminal Record): You were convicted of a crime, whether or not you actually committed it, and society has made that information available to anyone seeking it. You're treated badly because your society doesn't trust ex-cons.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

What about someone whose position shifts?

Here's how I handle it:

First, decide what the campaign "baseline culture" will be. Characters who temporarily suffer Social Stigmas or similar when abroad have a 0-point temporary disadvantage which can be "bought off" by going home. Likewise, the GM can assign temporary advantages which only last for the course of an adventure, such as a temporary Ally. These also cost 0 points.

Second, buy Social Traits based on the campaign baseline culture. With the GM's permission you might be able to apply an Accessibility limitation to Social Stigma, Social Regard, and similar advantages.

Third, treat any reaction modifier which isn't clearly a case of "what you are" vs. "who you are as a person" as a Reputation. If your status isn't obvious to anyone who sees you it's probably a Reputation.

Fourth, treat any person or group of people out to get you personally as an enemy.

For your pre-WW2 Zionist:

Assuming that the UK and British colonies are the baseline culture:

Advantages: Reputation (+2, Heroism, Zionists and Zionist allies (Small Group), All the Time [3]; Reputation (+1, Useful contact, British Intelligence (Small Group), 12-) [1].

Disadvantages: Enemy (Abwehr agents operating in the Middle East (Small Group), 6-) [-1]; Social Stigma (Second Class Citizen - Jewish) [-5]; Reputation (-2, Zionist rabblerouser, UK law enforcement and colonial authorities, Arabs, and Anti-Semites (Large Group), 12-) [-5].

If he's "British" enough to fit in to the power structure, then he might consider buying the Passing Appearance perk. For example, if he went to all the right schools, behaves like a member of the British upper crust, and downplays his Jewish ancestry and faith. That immunizes him against most casual forms of harassment, except from anti-Semites who bother to dig into his past.

[awesomenessofme1]

One grey area I thought of today is how to represent a wild but not especially dangerous animal. Valuable Property covers pets and livestock, Monster covers dangerous wild animals, but there's no way to accurately represent something like a deer or a fish. It came up when I was trying to craft some templates for a shapeshifter. Any thoughts? Especially on whether an appropriate SS should cost [-10] or [-15].

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Kromm

"Convicted criminals" is an example of a group X: Yes, you might have committed a crime to join that group (but not necessarily – you might have been wrongfully convicted), but Social Stigma (Criminal Record) is about others not knowing or particularly caring about whether you did or didn't actually commit a crime, or even what crime . . . they just learn you're an ex-con and shut down at once. If you're specifically called out for a particular crime, that's a separate Reputation. And if you go around behaving like a criminal, that's a separate Odious Personal Habit. You can have any one or two of these, or all three:

And, keep in mind, you don't have to actually be guilty of committing a crime to get any of these traits.

The same limits apply to Social Regard - if it's not blatantly obvious what you are, from your behavior, dress, mannerisms, and physical appearance - it's a Reputation.

For example, Yrth Halflings have Social Regard (Good Neighbor). That's because just about anyone on the planet thinks "Halflings = good people to have around" whether as trustworthy neighbors or docile slaves.

On a more mundane level, many Oriental cultures revere their elders. Younger people defer to their opinions, give them the benefit of the doubt, and treat them with extra politeness. This gives any obviously elderly person in that society a bit of clout that they otherwise might not have. For example, a village elder might be able to speak truths to a samurai which would get him disemboweled if he was 30 years younger.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1

One grey area I thought of today is how to represent a wild but not especially dangerous animal.

I've got a home-ruled "Non-Valuable Property (-20 points)," which is roughly equivalent to Subjugated.

"You have minimal civil rights, if any. You can be killed out of hand and nobody really cares. In some cases, you might be considered vermin to be exterminated. In any case, your kind are regularly excluded from areas which even more valued forms of property can enter. If you somehow get into those areas, you will quickly be ejected unless you can keep a low profile." e.g., non-dangerous wild or feral animal, low value livestock.

Add Pitiable for cute animals or Social Regard for well-regarded ones.

[dcarson]

Social Stigma (Criminal Record) isn't as directly visible as some although things like prison tattoos ca show it. It is easy to look up for police, potential employers, landlords, banks etc. and has hard coded bad reactions for some things like weapons, jobs that require a clean background etc. Being a visible minority everyone will see that you are but might react fine anyway since it is just a penalty, criminal there are things that you just can't get so the not casually recognized balances out.

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1

One grey area I thought of today is how to represent a wild but not especially dangerous animal. Valuable Property covers pets and livestock, Monster covers dangerous wild animals, but there's no way to accurately represent something like a deer or a fish. It came up when I was trying to craft some templates for a shapeshifter. Any thoughts? Especially on whether an appropriate SS should cost [-10] or [-15].

I use -10 for SS (Wild Animal). They're not treated as a monster, nor are they treated as "property". (A few - like brown and polar bears - also have Social Regard (Feared)...)

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by dcarson

Social Stigma (Criminal Record) [...] is easy to look up for police [...] and has hard coded bad reactions for some things like weapons

Which is really why it's worth points. Roleplaying games are about adventurers, and adventurers are customarily armed and do things that approach or cross the line between what's legal and what isn't. This Social Stigma means it's harder for you to participate in the action – or at least a good deal riskier (usually socially, sometimes physically).

Outside of action-adventure campaigns, it's still a problem, of course. Such games generally focus on either the social, in which case this disadvantage will close doors and limit mobility, or "doing the job" (e.g., being part of a cruise ship crew, circus, newsroom staff, or whatever), in which case this trait will limit promotions and possibly trigger scandals. But that's less of a problem than "If you guys act like gun-waving vigilantes, you might be able to get off with a warning. If I do it, just having the gun means I'm going right back to prison, where the guys inside will shank me for going vigilante on their pals."

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Social Stigma means "Essentially everybody in the campaign reference society marginalizes, distrusts, ridicules, or hates me for belonging to group X." It is by definition not specific to you or your actions.

This is both why it used to come up a lot and why I generally stopped using it. Racism (including fantasy racism) stopped being a useful or enjoyable storytelling device long ago, I've seen enough of it in real life that bringing it into roleplaying is depressing, and it's hard to make an NPC not a villain with the mentality required for Social Stigma to exist.

Yeah, it's unrealistic. So is not forcing playing to keep track of when the characters need to use the bathroom ;)

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

This is both why it used to come up a lot and why I generally stopped using it. Racism (including fantasy racism) stopped being a useful or enjoyable storytelling device long ago, I've seen enough of it in real life that bringing it into roleplaying is depressing, and it's hard to make an NPC not a villain with the mentality required for Social Stigma to exist.

Yeah, it's unrealistic. So is not forcing playing to keep track of when the characters need to use the bathroom ;)

Social Stigmas connected to race are hard to play in a way that is fun and engaging without downplaying or otherwise misrepresenting the issues. Its a great way to bring politics into the game, and that's not for every group.

Lost in Dreams, which embraced Social Stigmas for female characters, shied away from racial social stigmas for exactly that reason. We did work with it a little, but the roles where lined up with fantasy races, not skin tone, which gave a little bit of healthy distance. And was the same for all Player Characters that visited a different world, as they were all humans from modern earth. And I do find that distance helps.

I've toyed around with Social Stigma (Foreigner) [-5], which is for settings where being foreign gets you eyed suspiciously. Its also nice for showing ethnic tension and bigotry between cultures that are roughly equal in power.