First thoughts on D&D 4th edition

[Jürgen Hubert]

Originally Posted by Flyerfan1991

Well, I think I now know why the Dragonlance setting got pulled back into WotC, because they were working on this race.

I really can't see too much of a similarity between the Dragonborn and the Draconians from Dragonlance. Sure, they both do have draconic origins - but the dragonborn don't have wings, they don't get funky special effects after they die, they are remnants of an ancient civilization instead of a new artificial life form...

As for gnomes, I can see why they pulled them out of the PHB. They wanted to introduce some more decidedly alien PC races and in turn cut out some redundancy from the humanoid races. Gnomes were likely the easiest to cut, since they have less "iconic star power" than the other races. Frankly, if you asked people what gnomes are all about, the only thing that really comes to mind is the "annoying trickster" image...

But since they are still playable with the help of the MM, it doesn't bother me much.

[Dagger of Lath]

Originally Posted by Flyerfan1991

Well, yeah, but the point is that in just about any campaign I'd create except for specifically "mondo magic" campaigns, I'd ban those three. D&D 4.0 is starting to make the mid- and low- magic campaigns harder to justify. At least in 3.0 and earlier editions, you could accomodate a low-magic campaign a bit more easily.

And from what I can see the high magic campaign a lot harder to achieve. With all the "this is dangerous for your game" magical elements removed you can no longer choose to have them in a 4e game without houseruling.

[Irish Wolf]

Is there something wrong with houseruling? I think that if the PTB at WotC ever saw my copy of the DMG, all the pencil lines and marginal notations would make them blanch...

I can't say that I see a problem with removing Barbarian as a class, though. Like the Assassin before it (removed in v3.0), Barbarian isn't really so much a class as a way of life. You could be a barbaric ranger (or hunter), a shaman (think mage/druid multiclass), a barbaric saga-singing bard - it's more a background detail that should (if you're role-playing) affect how you view "civilized" peoples, than a class with its own abilities and weapon proficiencies. (Although if you want to be a barbaric warrior from the frozen North, you'd better have a darn good backstory explaining why you're an expert with nunchucks and compound longbows!)

[Dagger of Lath]

Originally Posted by Irish Wolf

Is there something wrong with houseruling?

Not at all, but it's hard (read impossible) to critique or discuss a role-playing game and include all possible houserules.

If I have to discuss the 4th edition of D&D I pretty much have to discuss it exactly as written or suggest particular houserulings that might be necessary.

However I like to mention that these problems can be house-ruled, simply for the sake of accuracy.

[Jürgen Hubert]

Originally Posted by Dagger of Lath

And from what I can see the high magic campaign a lot harder to achieve. With all the "this is dangerous for your game" magical elements removed you can no longer choose to have them in a 4e game without houseruling.

I once read that it is supposedly fairly easy to run a no-magic campaign by simply using only character classes with the "Martial" power source. All you lack then is a "Controller" - you have a Defender (Fighter), two Strikers (Rogue and Ranger), and a Leader (Warlord), which means that most your needs within a party are covered.

Hmmm... I wonder what a "Martial Controller" would look like.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Dagger of Lath

And from what I can see the high magic campaign a lot harder to achieve. With all the "this is dangerous for your game" magical elements removed you can no longer choose to have them in a 4e game without houseruling.

Yeah, but D&D 4e is made for house rules, that's the whole point of exception-based design. You can make whatever you want into a ritual.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Collective_Restraint

Oh and I just remembered that mages now cast Magic Missiles at will. I can now see the new D&D 4e battlefields filled with wizard troops shooting magic missiles like lasers, turning army battles into weird Star Wars-like scenes.

I thought we'd determined that Magic Missile wasn't Magic Missile anymore? That it actually wasn't any more effective than a crossbow?

[Lexia_Durothil]

Well, I'm sure to have more time for GURPS - their 4th Edition doesn't suck and is actually an improvement - in just about every way.

Every class is all about combat - and not much else that I can see. I'm not signing up for City of Heroes, WoW, or Evercrack instead, why, if that's all I'm after?

Healing makes no sense at all. Hospitals are obsolete - just set someone in the corner for 6 hours and they'll be fine. Of course, all those swords, axes, spears, and arrow aren't actually causing *damage* anyway, so don't worry about that.

Spellcasters strangely enhanced yet nerfed to death - an achievement.

My bad, I actually pre-ordered these things. When they come in on Friday, they're headed for Amazon immediately. I think I can honestly list them as "Mint condition, never used. Trust me on this!".

[William]

Originally Posted by Bruno

So? They're a totally new race to 4e, as far as I can tell (unless they're from Eberron - I'm not really familiar with that setting. I don't have a problem with them introducing new core races.

Tieflings? Planescape. Which is set on the Outer Planes, so there are more opportunities for evil exemplars to have relations with humans. (And actually, I'm fine with good exemplars having kids, too. After all, love is a big part of what such spirits are about, yah?) The counterparts for law and chaos are zenythri and chaonds, respectively, supposing the children take after that aspect of a parent's nature.

Half-elementals, yeah, I'm a bit weird on them too. Though I am playing an air genasi right now, grandson of a djinn. Grandma was a very good singer.

Over on planewalker.com, hoo, boy, are they up in arms about 4e... since Planescape is about an alignment-organized cosmology and the cosmology and alignments have been changed drastically, the setting is basically orphaned. Making the old fluff work with the new mechanics will be quite a challenge. But more power to 'em, I say. I've got my own homebrew to tinker with happily. :^)

[Flyerfan1991]

Originally Posted by Dagger of Lath

And from what I can see the high magic campaign a lot harder to achieve. With all the "this is dangerous for your game" magical elements removed you can no longer choose to have them in a 4e game without houseruling.

Yes, but the entire concept of the Feywild and the Warlock's Pact emphasizes a certain aspect to a campaign that a low magic campaign simply would have to throw out or modify heavily to make work. The same thing with the Dragonborn and the Tiefling; in a low magic campaign their very presence doesn't work very well without quite a bit of slight of hand by the DM.

--Mike L.