Bayonets?

[King_Of_Bel]

Hey all. I'm currently game mastering a campaign in which one player has requested to affix a bayonet to his musket, I can't seem to find rules for bayonets. I'm currently telling him to use the spear skill but with a knifes damage, but I'd like a more official response.

[johndallman]

See "Bayonets," p. 197 in High-Tech. Damage is better than a knife, and the reach depends on the length of the weapon it's attached to; you're quite correct that it uses Spear skill.

There's a martial-arts style for bayonet fighting on p. 197 of Martial Arts.

[Anaraxes]

Bayonets fixed on a rifle do indeed use Spear skill. (See B208.) Damage is usually thr+3 imp (HT 197), as for two-handed spears on B273. (Using knife stats is shortchanging the bayonet a bit. The rifle makes it a lot heavier, and you're usually using two hands.) Reach is usually either 1 or 1,2*, depending on how long the rifle and the bayonet are. High-Tech and Low-Tech have more stats for particular models, but as a rule of thumb anything up until modern (TL7) battle rifles and assault rifles would be 1,2*, while relatively short weapons (plus bayonets) would be Reach 1.

Using the bayonet on its own ("unfixed") would be a knife or shortsword.

[johndallman]

This caused me to think about how a bayonet charge from an organised military force would work.

It's basically an Intimidation attempt by an organised group, so it uses its leader's Intimidation skill vs. the Will of the opposing leader (Social Engineering, p. 69). Both of them can use Leadership as an opposed complementary skill (SE, p. 21). The modifiers on B.202 are also applicable, and displays of strength or bloodthirstiness are normal.

If the defending leader loses control of his force, they'll probably run away. If the attacking force loses the Intimidation vs. Will contest, you have the situation which is common in realistic wargames, of a charge that stops before it makes contact.

[mlangsdorf]

Originally Posted by johndallman

This caused me to think about how a bayonet charge from an organised military force would work.

It's basically an Intimidation attempt by an organised group, so it uses its leader's Intimidation skill vs. the Will of the opposing leader (Social Engineering, p. 69). Both of them can use Leadership as an opposed complementary skill (SE, p. 21). The modifiers on B.202 are also applicable, and displays of strength or bloodthirstiness are normal.

I'd actually make it charging unit's commander's Intimidation versus the average Will-based Soldier of the defending unit. That makes veteran units realistically harder to break.

If you wanted to be detailed, you could have differing results based on the MoS: maybe 20% of the defending unit flees per point of their MoF, and on a MoS 1-2 for the defending unit, they are considered braced and waiting for the attack but the attacking unit can still charge in if they really want to. MoS 3+ stops the charge entirely.

[weby]

Others have replied with rules, but it should also be noted that muskets did not come with bayonet lugs until very late in the era of muskets. So the player would likely need to get a gunsmith to add such to his weapon. It might be a problem to find such a gunsmith depending on the time period.

Also a bayonet will change the balance of the weapon and there is definitely a familiarity penalty to shoot with a bayoneted rifle if you have not done so before.

[Anaraxes]

LT and HT both cover the familiarity penalty for gun-bayonet combinations, as well as the penalty to Guns skill to shoot with bayonet attached (regardless of familiarity). I didn't want to give it all away :)

Since we're on the topic, use 2H Axe/Mace skill for clubbing people with longarm butts.

muskets did not come with bayonet lugs until very late in the era of muskets

What do you mean? AFAIK, lugs show up about twenty years after plug bayonets first get swapped out for ring bayonets, which is to say about 1700. Smoothbore muzzle-loaders were army issue weapons up until about 1850, so it seems muskets spent about as much or more time with lugs as without (and that counting the time of plug bayonets, through the 17th century).

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

L
Since we're on the topic, use 2H Axe/Mace skill for clubbing people with longarm butts.

).

If you use the butt of the musket without changing grips it's Staff. Note the -2 Default from Spear to Staff.

2H Axe/Mace is for when you do change grips and hold it by the barrel and swing for the fences. Many muskets were built for this but it's not recommended for later weapons.

[weby]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

What do you mean? AFAIK, lugs show up about twenty years after plug bayonets first get swapped out for ring bayonets, which is to say about 1700. Smoothbore muzzle-loaders were army issue weapons up until about 1850, so it seems muskets spent about as much or more time with lugs as without (and that counting the time of plug bayonets, through the 17th century).

Muskets came to be about 1500 and from what i understand ring bayonets came in the early 1700s and bayonet lugs in the 1800s.

I may be wrong but that is my understanding.

Before bayonet lugs, many of the ring bayonets did not have any sort of locking mechanism and were just placed around the muzzle causing the occasional dropped bayonet.