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Old 07-16-2012, 12:51 PM   #1
Tyneras
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Mountain View, CA
Default Continuous Armor Divisors

Currently, Armor divisors go in distinct steps (2, 3, 5, 10, 100, Infinite), with Hardened reduced them by those same steps

However, the most recent Pyramid gave us Survivable Guns, and the recalculations could give an AD that was not a perfect step (4 or 6). I have also seen examples where calculations have given ADs like 1.7 (although I think those might have been 3rd edition calculations).

Now, I like continuous, as opposed to stepped, functions for these sorts of things. I would rather not have to shoehorn these "non-standard" ADs into the current stepped system, and rather modify the system such that they fit in seamlessly.

To me, the obvious solution is to ditch the current stepped system and make both Armor Divisor and Hardened have a flat +% cost per +1 of each, with "Ignores Armor" being a completely separate enhancement for things like ghost particle beams and super powers, probably with a matching "Perfect Hardening" for armor that counters it, separate from Cosmic Damage and Cosmic DR.

This would mess with the math, however. To me, the obvious solution is to simply subtract Hardened from Armor Divisor, but I don't know if that runs afoul of consequences I cannot foresee, or maybe doesn't reflect reality somehow.

Any suggestions or feedback would be appreciated before I start converting things over to this more granular system.
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Old 07-16-2012, 01:07 PM   #2
Anthony
 
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Default Re: Continuous Armor Divisors

The main reason for integral armor divisors is because other numbers are annoying. However, there's some argument for 200% * log(divisor); this works out to the following prices for AD:
AD(2): 60% (was 50%)
AD(3): 95% (was 100%)
AD(4): 120%
AD(5): 140% (was 150%)
AD(6): 155%
AD(10): 200%
Then hardened becomes something like 'Hardened xN: ignores armor divisors up to N, multiplies effective DR by N for armor divisors exceeding N', and is priced at 80% * log(N).
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Old 07-16-2012, 01:09 PM   #3
Langy
 
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Default Re: Continuous Armor Divisors

I'd do Hardened as dividing the armor divisor, personally. That way a (2) AD hit by something with the first level of Hardened would be (2)/2 = (5)1. Something with a (10) AD and that same level of Hardened would be (10)/2 = (5). Etc.
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Old 07-16-2012, 01:18 PM   #4
Bruno
 
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Default Re: Continuous Armor Divisors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyneras View Post
Currently, Armor divisors go in distinct steps (2, 3, 5, 10, 100, Infinite), with Hardened reduced them by those same steps
A small correction:

"Armor divisors on the Innate Attack advantage" and "Hardened on the Damage Resistance advantage". The game doesn't use a stepping function, it just only provides prices for those steps because increased Armor Divisor is definitely a function of diminishing returns, and someone had to pick something for levels.

It's quite possible to get an armor divisor of 4 or 6 on an attack by targeting Chinks in Armor (AD2) with an AD 2 or AD 3 attack, for one example.
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Old 07-16-2012, 01:23 PM   #5
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Default Re: Continuous Armor Divisors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Langy View Post
I'd do Hardened as dividing the armor divisor, personally. That way a (2) AD hit by something with the first level of Hardened would be (2)/2 = (5)1. Something with a (10) AD and that same level of Hardened would be (10)/2 = (5). Etc.
The effect is the same, due to the inverse relationship of multiplication and division: A*B/C = A/(C/B).
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Old 07-16-2012, 01:26 PM   #6
Langy
 
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Default Re: Continuous Armor Divisors

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanW View Post
The effect is the same, due to the inverse relationship of multiplication and division: A*B/C = A/(C/B).
Yes, it is. Anthony posted after I already was typing my response.
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Old 07-16-2012, 01:36 PM   #7
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Default Re: Continuous Armor Divisors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Langy View Post
Yes, it is. Anthony posted after I already was typing my response.
Ah, sorry. I thought you were disagreeing with his method. Move along, nothing to see here.
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Old 07-16-2012, 02:04 PM   #8
Tyneras
 
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Default Re: Continuous Armor Divisors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
A small correction:

"Armor divisors on the Innate Attack advantage" and "Hardened on the Damage Resistance advantage". The game doesn't use a stepping function, it just only provides prices for those steps because increased Armor Divisor is definitely a function of diminishing returns, and someone had to pick something for levels.

It's quite possible to get an armor divisor of 4 or 6 on an attack by targeting Chinks in Armor (AD2) with an AD 2 or AD 3 attack, for one example.
My main problem is how WEIRD things behave when Hardened gets involved, since Hardened is absolutely in steps, its description doesn't make any sense otherwise.

Personally, I can't really think of a chink as an AD so much as a thin bit of armor, the weapon doesn't suddenly get sharper after all.

AD 3 attack, DR 30, chink in armor. 30/6 = 5 DR
AD 3 attack, DR 30 Hardened 1, chink in armor.
Hardened reduces 6 to 5. 30/5 = 6 DR
OR Hardened reduces 3 to 2. 30/4 = 7.5 DR
OR Hardened reduces 6 to 3. 30/3 = 10 DR

Included 6 to 5 and 6 to 3 because I can't remember what the official answer is for oddball AD and Hardened at the moment.
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Old 07-16-2012, 02:10 PM   #9
wellspring
 
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Default Re: Continuous Armor Divisors

I'm still not seeing what we're getting in exchange for adding all this added complexity.

Is some situation better simulated? Does it make the gaming aspect more fun or balanced? Does it give us new potential storylines and roleplaying opportunities?

If you can't answer "yes" to any of those questions, and if it doesn't reduce the complexity of the game, then I just don't see the point of a new rule.
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Old 07-16-2012, 02:12 PM   #10
Tyneras
 
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Default Re: Continuous Armor Divisors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Langy View Post
I'd do Hardened as dividing the armor divisor, personally. That way a (2) AD hit by something with the first level of Hardened would be (2)/2 = (5)1. Something with a (10) AD and that same level of Hardened would be (10)/2 = (5). Etc.
This makes sense, so just to reiterate:

Final_AD = (Armor_Divisor)/(Hardened + 1)

and if (Hardened + 1) > (Armor_Divisor) just treat it as 1? Or not?

How would you handle ADs of less than 1? Lets say we have a target with Hardened 1.

AD 10 = (10)/(2) = AD 5
AD 2 = (2)/(2) = AD 1 (aka full DR)
AD 0.5 = (0.5)/(2) = AD 0.25

Although to be honest, I don't think any player or NPC in my games has ever used a weapon with a <1 AD.
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