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Old 02-27-2012, 08:14 AM   #31
Tinman
 
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Default Re: Reign of Steel - Will to Live: Are DR values too low?

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Originally Posted by RogerBW View Post
Ulzgoroth has made most of the points I would. I'd also mention that the robots are designed primarily to go against weapons from Ultra-Tech rather than High-Tech.

Several of the robot designs don't necessarily make a lot of sense for general issue in the Final War, but may have been built for specific tactical purposes, and I feel that the Juggernaut is probably one of them. It may well have been designed to do "most of the job of a tank" when tank crews were dying of Ebola Zaire and thus not available to run a cheaper model, perhaps providing relatively expendable protection (e.g. three of them in a platoon commanded by one human-crewed tank); or to shoot down ultra-high-flying reconnaissance aircraft (check out the range on that main gun). It's also clearly a testbed for the experimental particle beam weapon...

(In the "modern day", of course, its main use is as a credible threat rather than an actual combat unit.)
I know that ROS: will to live , says that the juggernauts are not good at taking-out groups of humans and they are more of a symbol of a zone-mind's commitment. However, with enhanced tracking 3, a gattling laser & 4 laser rifles, besides the main gun (whitch I grant is verry inefficent at killing humans) I think they will work fine in any role.

As another poster said up-thread: they are tanks, not ogres. :)
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:30 PM   #32
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Reign of Steel - Will to Live: Are DR values too low?

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Originally Posted by vierasmarius View Post
I think I've found the disconnect. You're assuming that the damage from the tandem warheads are added together to overcome armor. This is usually the case, except when Explosive Reactive Armor (such as the TL10 RAP) is present. If there is ERA, the first warhead detonates it allowing the second warhead .
I actually think that you're "except" is relict text from 3e where RAP was handled very differently (it was a differnet sort of RAP too). In 4e you just stack the RAP onto the regular armor for a total DR.

In ay event after the first of the tandem charges passes through the RAP there's still 43 pts of damage left. There's no reason not to stack that onto the second charges damage _except_ that you're trying to rules-lawyer an indestructible tank by separating the two co-axial attacks in an unrealistic manner.

At any rate, argue the stacking MS-HEaT damage rule with Hans instead of me. It's his rule basically.
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:55 PM   #33
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Default Re: Reign of Steel - Will to Live: Are DR values too low?

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
At any rate, argue the stacking MS-HEaT damage rule with Hans instead of me. It's his rule basically.
Fair enough. I'm not trying to rules-lawyer an indestructible tank; I just encountered something (the tandem warhead damage-stacking rule, which seems very 3e) which felt backwards to me. But as you say, this is probably the wrong thread to argue that point. =P
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Old 02-27-2012, 07:15 PM   #34
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Reign of Steel - Will to Live: Are DR values too low?

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Fair enough. I'm not trying to rules-lawyer an indestructible tank; I just encountered something (the tandem warhead damage-stacking rule, which seems very 3e)
Oh no. It wasn't done that way in 4e at all. I don't remeber the details off-hand but RAP worked very dfifferently and tandem warheads worked dfferently to defeat them. MS-HEAT stacking is very 4e.
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Old 02-27-2012, 07:19 PM   #35
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Default Re: Reign of Steel - Will to Live: Are DR values too low?

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Oh no. It wasn't done that way in 4e at all. I don't remeber the details off-hand but RAP worked very dfifferently and tandem warheads worked dfferently to defeat them. MS-HEAT stacking is very 4e.
I see. Well, it reminded me of the only other damage-stacking rule I can recall, which was 3e lasers. Either way, my complaints with tandem warheads would be mostly solved if it either a) treated the warheads separately in all cases or b) treated the warheads as cumulative in all cases. If I include them in a future game, I'll probably go with option A, since it feels less unbalancing compared to a single larger warhead.
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Old 02-27-2012, 07:43 PM   #36
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Reign of Steel - Will to Live: Are DR values too low?

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Either way, my complaints with tandem warheads would be mostly solved if it either a) treated the warheads separately in all cases or b) treated the warheads as cumulative in all cases. If.
I beleive that they should be stacked in all cases really. Defense from RAP is stacked in 4e. That exception for RAP and Tandem warheads only makes sense if you asume 3e rules.
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